Subject:
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Re: Not Saving Private Ryan.
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 4 Jun 2004 07:49:08 GMT
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Viewed:
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646 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Terry Prosper wrote:
> Yeah. I cried too. I suddendly realized I was the same species as those
> butchers who sent men get butchered there that day. Both sides. If Europe and
> N. America had solved the problem with diplomacy BEFORE it got out of hand, none
> of this would have happened. But back then, the USA were not getting implicated
> in foreign affairs (good ol' times...) and France and GB cowered in front of
> Hitler, leaving him the time and oppoirtunity to strike. Bad call, bad
> diplomacy, poor administration.
I think it's fair to say that Europe ignored our advice at the end of WWI, so
I'm not sure where the U.S. should accumulate any blame: "We told ya so!"
:-)
>
> So the war was being lost and they had to get to Germany. But why wait so long?
The campaign in Italy wasn't working - the man who came up with the WWI
Gallipoli campaign thought that attacking up a rugged mountain chain would
constitute the "soft underbelly" of Europe (well, he was right politically in
both cases, but had no sense of terrain in either). So, time was needed to get
the materials together to make another invasion possible. You can't just walk
on shore - you need the supplies, the transport, the air cover, etc, to make it
work.
> USSR lost what, 21M men in WW2? Why? Because the USA asked them to hold the
> eastern front while they prepared an invasion by La Manche.
I think it's safe to say that Stalin was quite prepared to sacrifice another 20
million to get his revenge on Hitler (As long as he thought it could be achieved
by doing so, at least).
It was a butchery.
> A stupid military move made by stupid administrators who were safe from harm in
> their offices in GB. They sent thousands of men to a slaughter and the events
> turned positively, so now, it's known as D-Day, it's supposed to be the day the
> "free-world" won the war against the Nazis and everything. But D-Day was
> nothing more than soldiers butchering each others because politicians didn't do
> their jobs before. Too many good persons died that day for stupid reasons. It
> wasn't a good day for freedom or for anything. It should be remembered as the
> third most terrible day of human history. The first two being, of course, the
> Bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki (don't even get me started on that!)
It was a nasty end to a nasty war, but the subject has been discussed to death
already (the general concensus did not agree with your assessment, for whatever
its worth).
>
> I understand many people see in D-Day a symbol of freedom, or as john put it, a
> sacrifice some people did for them. The way I see it, D-Day is the proof that
> military action should never occure unless it's absolutely inevitable.
I think that is a given, but it's also a given that you can't go back and
correct past mistakes retroactively, and so at the time it happened, it was the
best option (i.e. absolutely inevitable).
A lesson
> Bush didn't learn. Instead of celebrating the day we won the war, we should cry
> the day we let the war happen. That way, instead of creating a hero cult,
> instead of celebrating war, we would celebrate peace and we could start
> considering heroes those who trul deseve it; not killing-machines taught to obey
> to any order without thinking, but doctors and nurses who save lives every day,
> firefighters who risk their lives to help others, volunteers who help those in
> need, etc.
Actually, D-Day only worked because our "killing-machines" actually thought and
tossed their orders out the window.
>
> Cinematrographically (?!), SPR was amazingly good. But I hate to celebrate
> violence and death. I was moved too, but in a very unpleasant way. Maybe it's
> because we don't crave "military heroes" here.
I don't think SPR "celebrated" anything. It acknowledged a debt we owe to those
who made a self-sacrifice for others, and tried to convey exactly what horrors
that sacrifice entailed (and threw in a loopy story, but that's beside the
point).
-->Bruce<--
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Not Saving Private Ryan.
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| (...) Yeah. I cried too. I suddendly realized I was the same species as those butchers who sent men get butchered there that day. Both sides. If Europe and N. America had solved the problem with diplomacy BEFORE it got out of hand, none of this (...) (20 years ago, 4-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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