Subject:
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Re: Not embarassed to be a Canadian anymore...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 26 Nov 2002 16:55:28 GMT
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Viewed:
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443 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > I can't help but to wonder if this person's opinion would be different had
> > OBL leveled a different target-- namely Toronto's First Canadian Place.
> Perhaps it should not take a bloody nose for anyone to see the truth about
> terrorism?
But there's nothing like a Pearl Harbor or 9-11 to jolt one's senses. The sad
truth is that a bloody nose is *exactly* what it takes.
> > What I'd like to hear are some
> > alternate solutions to deal with terrorism that don't include a dependence
> > upon the naive solution of diplomacy (because I've seen how well that
> > strategy has worked in the ME)
> I feel sorry for you. What do you do if you disagree with your wife? Does she
> beat you until you do agree, or do you talk the problem over?
And what if she does? What the hell does that have to do with anything?
> What the ME shows is how violence does not work and diplomacy can work.
> Diplomacy in the ME brought peace far closer than violence ever has.
Please. Diplomacy has *not* worked in the ME, no matter how "close" it ever
appeared. There are fundamental issues at play, namely the very *existence* of
the State of Israel. There are some who will not relent until there is no
Israel, and no amount of negogiation will change that.
> The
> problem is that the diplomatic solution meant that Israel had to give back
> land that did not belong to it.
Israel *has* returned land in the past. What did it get her? The promised
peace? The fact is that every condition that was ever negogiated has been
violated. One could argue that negogiation has actually *prolonged* the
conflict.
> The nationalists in Israel [and their supports further a field] could not
> countenance that. We see the resultant bilateral terrorism today. Indeed, I
> read over the weekend that Israel murdered a UN worker.
And here is where the conversation ends, because we are so apart on this that
further discussion is pointless. If you are willing to equate an accidental
killing of a UN worker (for which Israel has apologized) to the results of a
homicidal bomber (which was very deliberate, and I mean the deliberate murder
of women and children), then we have nothing to talk about, because I find it
offensive.
> Conversely, Israel?s history also shows how belligerence and terrorism can
> work. Do you deny that?
"Can work"? To what end? If you mean that it has preserved their existence,
yes, but not much else beyond that.
> A war on terror will never stop terrorism. I war on injustice has a better
> chance.
I doubt it. There will always be injustice, and thus there would always be
war. A war terror has a better chance of stopping terrorism than doing
nothing. Inaction and negogiation merely emboldens terrorists.
-John
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Not embarassed to be a Canadian anymore...
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes: <snip> (...) Not to hijack this thread back to the original topic of insulting one another... But quoting Larry... since no one has responded directly to the original issue of 'tomfoolery' across our (...) (22 years ago, 26-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Not embarassed to be a Canadian anymore...
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| (...) Why is that? Do you not care unless you are the victim? (...) My point is that talk is better than violence. (...) It has worked better than violence - that is my point. (...) The "right" will be happy that you think that is what the problem (...) (22 years ago, 26-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Not embarassed to be a Canadian anymore...
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| (...) Perhaps it should not take a bloody nose for anyone to see the truth about terrorism? (...) lol (...) I feel sorry for you. What do you do if you disagree with your wife? Does she beat you until you do agree, or do you talk the problem over? (...) (22 years ago, 25-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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