Subject:
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Re: Not embarassed to be a Canadian anymore...
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 26 Nov 2002 21:09:05 GMT
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Viewed:
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447 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes:
> > > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> >
> > > > I can't help but to wonder if this person's opinion would be different had
> > > > OBL leveled a different target-- namely Toronto's First Canadian Place.
> >
> > > Perhaps it should not take a bloody nose for anyone to see the truth about
> > > terrorism?
> >
> > But there's nothing like a Pearl Harbor or 9-11 to jolt one's senses. The sad
> > truth is that a bloody nose is *exactly* what it takes.
> Why is that? Do you not care unless you are the victim?
I am saying that I care *more* *because* it happened to me, as you would if OBL
had leveled Buckingham Palace and 1,000s of *your* countrymen were murdered.
You just don't get it. If not for the courageous actions of a handful of
Americans, the fact is that we could quite possibly not have our National
Capital or White House standing (depending which was the intended target).
Yeah, it's personal, so walk a mile.
> > > > What I'd like to hear are some
> > > > alternate solutions to deal with terrorism that don't include a dependence
> > > > upon the naive solution of diplomacy (because I've seen how well that
> > > > strategy has worked in the ME)
> >
> > > I feel sorry for you. What do you do if you disagree with your wife? Does she
> > > beat you until you do agree, or do you talk the problem over?
> >
> > And what if she does? What the hell does that have to do with anything?
>
> My point is that talk is better than violence.
Not always. Review Chamberlain. Hitler laughed behind his back, as muslim
terrorists laugh behind yours.
> > > What the ME shows is how violence does not work and diplomacy can work.
> > > Diplomacy in the ME brought peace far closer than violence ever has.
> >
> > Please. Diplomacy has *not* worked in the ME, no matter how "close" it ever
> > appeared.
> It has worked better than violence - that is my point.
How so? There is *still* violence in the ME, so *neither* have worked so far.
> > There are fundamental issues at play, namely the very *existence* of
> > the State of Israel.
>
> The "right" will be happy that you think that is what the problem is.
And those who secretly wish Israel gone thank you for your obfuscation to
conceal *their* ultimate goal.
> > There are some who will not relent until there is no
> > Israel, and no amount of negogiation will change that.
>
> ...and there are some that will not relent until there are no Palestinians.
Really? Who might they be?
>
> >
> > > The
> > > problem is that the diplomatic solution meant that Israel had to give back
> > > land that did not belong to it.
> > Israel *has* returned land in the past.
> All of it?
Even if they had, do you think there would be peace today?
> > What did it get her? The promised
> > peace?
>
> Are they at war with Egypt?
Ha, where do you think all of the Palestinian armaments come from? Through
Gaza via Egypt. They certainly aid her enemies....
> > The fact is that every condition that was ever negogiated has been
> > violated.
>
> By only the Palestinians?
No, and I did not say so.
> > One could argue that negogiation has actually *prolonged* the
> > conflict.
>
> If I thought war was the answer, I would agree.
By the time you'd think war was necessary, the point would be moot.
> > > The nationalists in Israel [and their supports further a field] could not
> > > countenance that. We see the resultant bilateral terrorism today. Indeed, I
> > > read over the weekend that Israel murdered a UN worker.
> >
> > And here is where the conversation ends, because we are so apart on this that
> > further discussion is pointless. If you are willing to equate an accidental
> > killing of a UN worker (for which Israel has apologized)
> Terrorism helped bring about its existence. Ever heard of the King David Hotel
> [1946: >90 dead] or the Cinemas and American Libraries Israel bombed in Egypt?
Since you attribute terrorism as helping Israel come into existence, do you
hold that their right to exist is somehow in question?
> > > A war on terror will never stop terrorism. I war on injustice has a better
> > > chance.
> >
> > I doubt it.
>
> That's sad.
>
> > There will always be injustice, and thus there would always be
> > war. A war terror has a better chance of stopping terrorism than doing
> > nothing.
>
> That is not my point! Is it anyone's?
what exactly *was* your point?
> > Inaction and negogiation merely emboldens terrorists.
Respond to this, please.
-John
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Not embarassed to be a Canadian anymore...
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| (...) The UK has already lost 1000's to terrorists. Much of it supporeted by *your* countrymen: (URL)You just don't get it. You don't. OBL has been a terrorist for quite a while. You country trained him. None of that was a problem until he bit the (...) (22 years ago, 27-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Not embarassed to be a Canadian anymore...
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| (...) Why is that? Do you not care unless you are the victim? (...) My point is that talk is better than violence. (...) It has worked better than violence - that is my point. (...) The "right" will be happy that you think that is what the problem (...) (22 years ago, 26-Nov-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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