Subject:
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Re: Elian Gonzales
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:53:03 GMT
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Viewed:
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684 times
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In a different subthread Bruce said I was ignoring a post of his. I think THIS
is the one he refers to... sorry about that.
OK.
In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes:
> So a foreign state can keep my son from me because they feel they have moral
> superiority? I disagree. Communist police state, theocracy, monarchy,
> whatever. I don't like 'em all. But if that is *home* to someone and they
> want to live there, that's the individual's call (and in line with Libertarian
> thought).
I think this is the key point in the post that needs responding to.
Let's posit a theoretical example. Suppose there were a state in which at the
age of 10, one half of all the children would be put to death and eaten, based
on the flip of a coin, for no reason other than it were whim of the ruler.
Now, is it a libertarian America's duty to fix this evil? Arguably, no. Not
unless it is in danger of spreading to our shores. Individual citizens
certainly would be welcome to volunteer their arms and their armaments to fight
against it but not under government aegis.
Now, posit that through some accident of fate, a 6 year old happens to wash
ashore on the beaches of this libertarian state, and relatives of his took him
in.
The definition of a refugee is that there must be a well founded fear of
persecution in the home country. The definition of asylum is for a state to
grant a shield from that persecution by giving sanctuary.
So, if the relatives then petition for asylum, and the father appears,
demanding that the boy be returned to the child eating state, it seems clear to
me in this contrived example that the petition for asylum takes precendence and
the father is unfit. My moral code allows me to pass judgement on other moral
codes (that is, I reject moral relatavism) and therefore if the father really
wants to go back, he's broken. Hence unfit anyway.
This is a contrived example but the difference is in degree, not kind. Cuba IS
a child eating state, it's just fortunately less than 1 in 2.
Now, not every person that passes through should be snatched. Only those that
want asylum of their own free will, or that are too young to decide for
themselves. America IS morally superior to Cuba. We could be better still if
we'd just get rid of venal killers like Reno but even now we have a decisive
edge.
++Lar
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Message has 4 Replies:
 | | Re: Elian Gonzales
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| (...) WARNING! Don't take your kids to America, you might never see them again! This is frought with danger. Based on China's human rights record (and gross overpopulation) if a Chinese family visited the USA with a young child, would you advocate (...) (25 years ago, 28-Apr-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Elian Gonzales
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| (...) Libertarian (...) Can't we just stick to the actual events? :-) (...) fight (...) Elian was at sea, was rescued, and brought here. Oh alright, I'm nit-picking on that one. (...) I don't think persecution was why they left. (...) The child (...) (25 years ago, 28-Apr-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Elian Gonzales
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| Here is the catch to all these arguements. Even in a Libertarian state, the thing most revered and respected is personal freedoms. One major freedom is the right for a person to decide where they desire to live and persue happiness. If Juan Miguel, (...) (25 years ago, 28-Apr-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | Re: Elian Gonzales
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| In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: I'm taking this opportunity to post contrary to Larry since it only happens once in a blue moon :-) (...) fight (...) I'm with you so far... (...) Not to me. (And to others apparently.) When the (...) (25 years ago, 28-Apr-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Elian Gonzales
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| (...) The legal rulings do get confusing, don't they? My understanding is that the ruling to hand over the child was valid and no temporary restraining order was in effect (or perhaps in effect by a sufficiently high enough court). (...) Now Larry, (...) (25 years ago, 26-Apr-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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