Subject:
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Re: Elian Gonzales
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 27 Apr 2000 04:25:11 GMT
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Viewed:
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607 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes:
> > Well, when he has relatives back in Cuba who would have to face the • repercussions of his defection, it might *seem* as though he doesn't want to
> > leave Cuba. I'd say he's in a tough spot.
>
> Undoubtedly! But that's still an assumption based on preconceptions
Sorry, can you clear up for me what preconceptions you're referring to?
There is hard documented evidence in profuse quantities that, for example,
psychiatry is viewed as an arm of the ministry of the interior (that is, the
secret police) and dissenters are given wholly inappropriate (since they happen
to be quite sane) "treatment" as a means to quell dissent.
Surely you're not going to say that Cuba isn't a police state, or that dissent
isn't thoroughly suppressed, or that people aren't arbitrarily imprisoned, or
that the regime doesn't have a track record of holding relatives hostage to
ensure compliance when people travel outside the clutches of the security
apparatus?
If you're really in doubt... just go cruise, for example, the amnesty
international (not exactly a hotbed of right wing sympathisers there, they do
an excellent job of cataloging atrocity wherever it may be found) website.
> of the
> communist state, rather than on any evidence relevant to the case at hand.
I don't see that any evidence *particular* to this case is required.
Castro's track record is perfectly adequate to establish beyond a reasonable
doubt that if Castro so chose, he could get Elian's dad to say anything he
wanted him to say. And we know that Castro and his thuggish cronies have
invested a lot of political capital in getting an outcome that embarrasses the
US. A LOT. Hence it isn't much of a leap in logic to conclude that Elian's dad
is having strings pulled.
And that is "relevant to the case at hand" regardless of precise information
about which relatives are being held hostage and which relatives were tortured
when.
When a regime enforces systematic brutality against its own people it has lost
the right to govern and the right to have any say in the international
community. Elian has correctly applied for asylum. That petition should be
heard. Elian's mother made the supreme sacrifice in order to try to secure his
freedom. Elian's father should be given our deepest sympathy but politely
ignored unless he decides to ask for asylum himself, as desiring to return his
son to Cuba is a sign of unfitness to be a parent.
To say anything else than that these facts about Cuba are indeed facts is to be
an apologist for one of the last few hard line Evil Empire outposts. And if
that's your line, why then, I have to discount pretty much everything else
you've ever said because your grip on reality is tenuous at best.
A point to ponder:
Either you or Bruce characterised it as a stupid decision for Elian's mother to
try to escape. Would you call the Warsaw Ghetto uprising stupid? If so, why? If
not, how is this different in kind? Discuss.
++Lar
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Elian Gonzales
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| (...) **snip of a few undeniable truths about Cuba** My question remains, though: are we to assume that anyone who chooses to remain in such a country must necessarily be either deceitful (spelled properly this time, unlike my last post!), under (...) (24 years ago, 27-Apr-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Elian Gonzales
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| (...) repercussions of his defection, it might *seem* as though he doesn't want to (...) Undoubtedly! But that's still an assumption based on preconceptions of the communist state, rather than on any evidence relevant to the case at hand. Dave! (24 years ago, 26-Apr-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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