 | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —John Neal
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| | | (...) Good one:-) (...) Ah, well, I should've kept my fingers shut because I don't have the time or inclination to "go there" (again) WRT to this topic, but here is an analogy to consider: why can a black person call another black person the "N" (...) (20 years ago, 8-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Brendan Powell Smith
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| | | | (...) To stick with your analogy for a moment, can Michael Jackson, as a former black person, call a currently black person the "N" word? Not that I think this is a very good analogy. Having dark skin is really not analagous to subscribing to a (...) (20 years ago, 8-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —John Neal
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| | | | (...) You aren't being serious. (...) Skin color wasn't the issue; it was a racial issue. (...) You've missed my point. How about this: a Jewish comedian pokes fun at Rabbi in a joke. A Muslim comedian pokes fun at a Rabbi in a joke. Is not one (...) (20 years ago, 9-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Jennifer Clark
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| | | | | "John" <John@TCLTC.org> wrote in message news:I3rK7M.E7B@lugnet.com... (...) Rabbi in (...) perceived (...) It would depend on many things, including context and delivery. (...) created (...) So if they were created by a person such a this, and (...) (20 years ago, 9-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Brendan Powell Smith
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| | | | (...) What I meant was this: I was once a Christian. Out of curiosity, in your mind, does that affect my right to criticize or poke fun at the Bible? (...) I prefer to speak of these matters in terms of skin color, since I'm not entirely sure I know (...) (20 years ago, 9-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —John Neal
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| | | | (...) Ah, okay; now I see where you were going with my hypothetical. With this knowledge, I think we can dispense with hypotheticals. (...) Hmmm. Right? No. Yes. Legally, of course, you have every right to do what you are doing and that is only (...) (20 years ago, 10-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Dan Boger
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| | | | | (...) It's not a primer, but it does tell the stories in plain langugage. And as far as I can tell, it's just as accurate as the Hebrew version (so the random english translation bit from your argument can be dropped). (...) So any criticism of the (...) (20 years ago, 10-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) I think the OT is just as foreign to a modern Jew who reads Hebrew as it is to a Western American. To really understand it, one must have a knowledge of ancient Judaism and all of its culture and practices. Many of those traditions have been (...) (20 years ago, 10-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Any God who would be so deliberately vague (which is to say deceptive (which is to say evil)) as to prevent easy comprehension of the correct meaning of his One Word on Earth is unworthy of my worship. (...) Do you accept that the examination (...) (20 years ago, 10-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) That is why Jesus summed it up nicely into: "Love God with all of your heart, soul and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself." That's all you really need to know and do. But I think you are being a little disingenuous WRT to worshipping (...) (20 years ago, 10-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | (...) Actually, I think the current situation with regard to a rea/ideal god does exist. I don't bother him and he doesn't bother me. But if I were to answer: He would show himself. He would provide a quid pro quo deal that I can understand. He (...) (20 years ago, 13-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) How so? (And I ask this sincerely!) (...) My spider-sense tells me that this is an attempt to trick me into formulating an ontological argument for God's existence, but I'll give it a try anyway. First of all, I'm not sure that I would worship (...) (20 years ago, 13-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —John Neal
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| | | | | | | (...) Read below. (...) No, no, not at all. My secret suspicion was that you could never worship any kind of god. I think I was correct by your responses below... (...) Never said worship was required. Besides, if it is your ideal God, then He (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Which ones? Chris (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) Why? For starters... (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Off the top of my head: "Why do almost all discussions in lugnet.off-topic.debate inevitably turn into discussions of religion?" (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Boy, have you got it wrong! The real question is "Why do almost all religious discussions in ot.debate inevitably start out as discussions of other subjects?" Dave! (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I repent! But give me no penance, sinner. (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) I think I presented this poorly. I was trying to articulate a few basic reasons for worship, and my problems with those reasons. Anyway, doesn't God require worship, at least to achieve the professed reward? I'm not saying that a (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Anthony Sava
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| | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote: SNIP (...) SNIP (...) Sorry for bringing up an old thread, and for beating a dead horse. It's not in my nature to evangelize, but the Catholic in me has been bothered by these two statements. I've been (...) (20 years ago, 8-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) Hi Anthony: Thanks for taking the time to reply. Even if you choose not to respond after this post, I hope you'll read my response, if only to get a sense of where I'm coming from. (...) I must confess that I'm not comfortable with at least (...) (20 years ago, 8-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Dave Schuler wrote: <snip> (...) So I'm trying to get to sleep last night--tossing and turning around, and I find myself thinking about my foot. My foot, at that moment, was 'peeking out' from under the sheets and hanging (...) (20 years ago, 8-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote: (snip interesting foot-story) (...) But if we accept that human DNA is constantly changing, it stands to reason that any ideals encoded therein would be constantly changing too. (...) LOL I think that (...) (20 years ago, 9-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —J. Spencer Rezkalla
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| | | | | | (...) I'd like God a whole lot better if he'd just bother to show up once and awhile instead of being such a deadbeat dad... Spencer (20 years ago, 8-Oct-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —David Koudys
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| | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) Kinda like the cartoon that 'Fundie' Christians love to trot out in their newsletters--guy at funeral--'Poor old athiest Joe, all dressed up with nowhere to go' Beyond that, when (...) (20 years ago, 10-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) Watching (URL) Star Trek VI> again, are we? Dave! (20 years ago, 10-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | (...) It is the best Trek-- "That's alright with me, I just bought a boat..." "Still think we're finished?"--"More than ever..." "Note to Galley; Romulan Ale no longer to be served at diplomatic functions" Ahhh, what a flick! Dave K (20 years ago, 10-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) Is this the secular version of "an eye for an eye"? (...) All Christians? (...) Any specific examples in mind? (he asked knowingly) (...) Okay, someone from Vietnam comes to live in the US and continues to fry up cats and dogs for meals. Any (...) (20 years ago, 11-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | (...) Ha! Well my version would be: "God gives Christians self-worth. Life without God, if examined theologically, is worthless" ROSCO (20 years ago, 11-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: God and worth (was re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred) —Richard Parsons
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| | | | | | | | (...) Two very worthy distinctions otherwise lost on many of the most enthusiastic christians. God doesn't seem to do much for athiests. And people who can't find any value in life without the need to resort to a god seem to me to have something of (...) (20 years ago, 11-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: God and worth (was re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred) —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | (...) Well, I happen to find the things Man finds worthful completely worthless. Monetary wealth? Success? Fame? Getting laid? Or happiness? Even happiness for its own sake is empty. (...) At the very least, focusing on God turns our narcissistic (...) (20 years ago, 11-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: God and worth (was re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred) —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | | | | (...) The operative word being "I". ROSCO (20 years ago, 11-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: God and worth (was re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Only if you choose to define it that way. I used to work with a Christian who said something like "if emotions are just chemical reactions, aren't they meaningless?" Well, sure. Insofar as I attach no truly transcendent, metaphysical "meaning" (...) (20 years ago, 13-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote: [snip] Excuse the paraphrase, but did you just say something like, "Life without Allah is worthless." On Septermber 11th? Wow. (20 years ago, 12-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —David Laswell
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| | | | | | (...) Are you suggesting that having drawn spiritual support on 9-11-2001, as millions of Christians did [1], from a God who is coincidentally shared with two other major religions essentially means they supported the terrorist attacks? Wow, (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | (...) No, I'm merly attempting to point out in my own inept way that the sentiments expressed by John are strikingly similar those used by used by the terrorists to justify their actions. Draw all the spiritual support you need, but don't use it to (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —John Neal
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| | | | | | | (...) Don, you completely miss the boat in your analysis. I said life without God, is meaningless. Meaning, God gives our lives purpose, God gives us hope, God gives us strength to carry on each day; to live. Without that motivation, what is the (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | | | (...) I'm not sure I see the difference between worthless and meaningless in this context, but I'll take it up as a vocabulary lesson later. (...) Who gives purpose to God? You do. The argument is circular. Why not cut out the invisible middleman? (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —David Laswell
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| | | | | | (...) It's also not that far from positive worth. Most Christians see it from that perspective, which is why there are so many Christian missionaries around the world. Most of the Christians who don't see it from that perspective are either just (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Don Heyse
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| | | | | | (...) So instead of a half empty glass, you see it as completely empty? To be filled with either holy water or poison. I say you're wrong. The glass is already half full and the beverage is tasty. (...) What? I thought we were talking about the (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —David Laswell
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| | | | | | (...) Not my original analogy, so I'm restricted to revising it using the terms provided. You were the one who introduced the idea of Zero Worth/Empty Glass. (...) An empty glass cannot, by definition, be full of poison. The point I was trying to (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —David Koudys
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| | | | | | (...) Kinda reminds me of a ST:TNG ep.. :) Not that that particular ep. hasn't been mentioned here before... Dave K (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Neb Okla
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| | | | | "John" <John@TCLTC.org> wrote in message news:I3tB8E.L00@lugnet.com... (...) So if the motive for criticizing or poking fun at the Bible could *possibly* be traced to intolerance or bigotry then it is immoral? It doesn't seem to me that The Brick (...) (20 years ago, 11-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: The Brick Testament: A Family Stoned and a City Massacred —Ross Crawford
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| | | | (...) And for a Christian to (URL) mock or criticize non-believers by calling their lives worthless>, I would have to question motives. Get down off your high horse, please John. ROSCO (20 years ago, 12-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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