 | | Re: slight —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | (...) Kadinsky? Anyway, read Dr. Betty Edwards "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" (I believe there is a new edition "The New Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain"). She uses numerous techniques for teaching drawing that in fact had been (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: slight —David Koudys
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| | | | (...) And let me mention that a spider web is, to me, quite the piece of art as well. Leftist thinking or Rightist thinking does not an artist make, nor intelligence or stupidity a defining factor for art, or for that matter, even *human*. I find (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: slight —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | (...) I'm sorry to keep harping on this point, but it is really central to your approach to the entire debate. I believe the literal translation is "I don't know what" (thanks, Dr. Evil!) which is *fundamentally* different from "it cannot possibly (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: slight —David Koudys
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| | | | | | (...) And to think I grew up in a bi-lingual country (english/french)! Thanks! It's like the dutch saying (and the spelling will be completely wring here...) 'Ich Vait het neet' which means I know it not... Somebody throw me a frikkin' booone here! (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: slight —Pedro Silva
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| | | | | | (...) Actually, the french expression *has* that idiomatic meaning associated with it. The literal translation is correct, but in some contexts - such as this one - the other meaning will apply. (...) J'ai jeté l'os, maintenant c'est à toi de te (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: slight —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) You can have whatever belief you like. It's when you want ME to believe that you have to play by my rules. And if you're forcing your morality on me (not you, David K, but the generic you) meaning you want me to believe in a christian god... (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: slight —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) The book is speaking about what part of your brain you use to execute art, not your relative liberal or conservative thinking. Read the book and you'll understand. (...) What is this "it" are you talking about? An emotional appeal? Yes, it (...) (22 years ago, 16-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: slight —David Koudys
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| | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd writes: <snip> (...) Love to read it, and I'll get to it. (...) Thank you for making my point clear--emotions have nothing to do with science, and I never wanted to infer, allude, or say they ever (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: slight —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | (...) See? This is why I only skim your replies... Bruce is talking about a debate technique called an "emotional appeal" -- usually this takes the form of something that stirs the emotions of a reader or listener but that also tends to lack a (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: slight —Joseph Williams
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| | | | | | | (...) This hominid-centric viewpoint that we are the sole custodians of emotions baffles me. Richard you do a great job at explaining the possible origins of them as have several others in this thread. (...) The albatross which is the oldest living (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: slight —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | (...) There is no such assertion being made by me. Human examples merely avoid the extra step of having to describe how one knows the experience of another species. I think I read "Ghost in the Machine" many, many years ago. A lot of the stuff that (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: slight —Joseph Williams
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| | | | | | | | (...) wasn't saying you were making that assertion, noting how you argued ~against~ it. that viewpoint is shared by many here and zillions over the globe that humans are the only ones with souls, as we once thought we were the center of the physical (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: slight —James Brown
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| | | | | | (...) Really? Do you have a convenient cite for this? I did some google searching, and only found 2nd or 3rd hand references of dubious quality. I have heard the 4-6 year thing before, but never from a particularly qualified source. It's also never (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: slight —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, James Brown writes: <snip> (...) Well, there's a movie called 'The 7 Year Itch'... ;) Dave K (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | 4-6 year human mating cycle (was Re: slight) —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | (...) Yeah, I don't have ready access to any of my old cultural or physical anthropology standbys so all I can do is assert some stuff from memory. The linked theories here are those concerning "serial monogamy", "sperm wars", and "love as chemical (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: slight —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) I said "an emotional appeal", not emotions. I've clipped the rest of your paragraph because it was preceeding on a false premise. An emotional appeal is one that does not rely on fact, but instead tries to invoke an emotional response to gain (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: slight —David Koudys
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| | | | (...) Show me. Just don't say it's a false premise and clip it. It's like, 'I don't agree with that--it doesn't make scientific sense, therefore its false or invalid' which *is* the very nature of this discussion. I never wanted to invoke an (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: slight —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | (...) Go back and look since you clearly didn't bother to read it in the first place. (...) Another attempt at an emotional response: imply that emotional responses must be "touchy-feely" and therefore something of derision that you wouldn't use. (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: slight —David Koudys
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| | | | (...) K, we're just not reading one another here. At all. And I don't know if both of us are just being obtuse, but here's my premise: Science is a good way for us to come to understand the physical universe. Things may exist outside the scope of (...) (22 years ago, 17-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | My son wandered in and logged me off when I stepped away and wiped out my almost finished reply. I'm not going to go back and type it up all again for two reasons. One is that it is too much work. Second is that all I'm doing is being forced to (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Maggie Cambron
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| | | | | (...) Aughhh, it's times like that when you just need to step away and get some fresh air... maybe walk the dog... and the cat... the bird.... Maggie C. (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | (...) One guess where I was when my son decided the computer was his to use.... The bird has a new technique to avoid the harness: he puts his head down flush with my arm so that I can't loop it around him. He's too flipping smart (but he's still a (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —David Koudys
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| | | | (...) Good researching. I did take myself out back and slapped myself around a bit--well, figuratively anyway. And I have no problem admitting that, in that particular debate about Ev'n vs Cr'm, things did get a little outta hand (some even had to (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | I thought I had quit this thread, but this note was too cool! I think it would make an interesting qualitative study of newsgroup dynamics to get the major participants of a bulky thread to recap the thread in detail. Each of them would emphasize (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) <snip> And that point is tiresome for me to point out again, and again, and again, but I will, because pointing out the truth, as people here may agree--is the right (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) out (...) Yes, I understand. I suppose I was using a short-hand description. My bad. I think we all know and understand what you're asserting. And it's still wrong. It seems that you are suggesting that the nature of "a god" is to (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | (...) Forgetting about the nature of my particular chosen religion, and *my* God therein, the question before us is, 'Can *something* exist outside of science?' The idea that I have a faith in an infinite God is inconsequential. The thought that (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) Since you cast aspersions on Chris' reading comprehension in (URL) is inexcusable that you should fail to read his subsequent post correctly. He is not questioning the "reasons" for your assertion; he's questioning the "reasoning" for it. Can (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | (...) And I mention to you, Dave! right now, that questioning 'the reasoning for the assertion' instead of the 'reasons' for it, makes my point *even* more clear-- If I were to ask: Is black, black? I have my reasons for saying that this should be (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Dan Boger
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| | | | | | | | (This is a very interesting thread to follow, imo :) something isn't right here: (...) no, C1 will only follow if P1 said: P1: Science can explain only the physical universe. Which is not the claim that was made, I believe. I'm not sure what would (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | (...) Faulty thinking and faulty assumptions again. Your having faith is an observable phenomenon that can be studied. Science would not deny that existence of your *having* faith -- it might study the chemical or physical reasons that you maintain (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Marchetti writes: <snip> (...) That about sums it up for me, as well. Nicely said. Dave K. (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | (...) I am not sure how to take this statement. Are you accepting Aristotlean methods as the chief utility of scientific thought and all rational inquiry, or are you somehow thinking that you go from "I don't know" to asserting the existence of your (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | (...) Start passing out the cigars. I may not know all the principles that Aristotle laid out, but if it's based on the concept that" Quoteth Hop-Frog " (...) " summed up into " (...) " I'm on the same page. Whether we disagree that I have always (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) This was kind of a sub-point that you took the wrong way. Instead of discussing the stuff that stems from that, I'd like to restate slightly. It seems when you claim that to some that science is a god _because_ those people assert that science (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes: <snip> (...) <snip> People 'make gods' to explain things. I think that's a pretty much historically accurate statement. Not *all* people 'make up' gods--some folks don't have any gods, and (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) Oops, talk about getting distracted at work--my God exists *for me*, whether you believe it or not--was a stupid omission, not a malicious one. Dave K. (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | I'm not sure of the point of the selective recap, but I'll let the others answer for themselves. (...) "Once there was a way, to get back home...." You are the one equating science and god. Yes, I know, you are staring at your screen and saying, "I (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —David Koudys
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| | | | (...) "Take the long way home..." (my favourite song from my favourite group...) (...) Then consider it grasped, my friend. I made a statement that equated science as a god, and for that, I apologize. If I say that science is not a god, can we agree (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | (...) Home again, home again, Jiggedty jig. Bruce Still round the corner there may wait, A new road or a seret gate; And though I oft have passed them by, A day will come at last when I Shall take the hidden paths that run West of the Moon, East of (...) (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | (...) A! Elbereth Gilthoniel! silivren penna miriel o menel aglar elenath, Gilthoniel, A! Elbereth! We still remember, we who dwell In this far land beneath the trees The starlight on the Western Seas. (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —Ross Crawford
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| | | | (...) I kinda like "Fool's overture" and "Babaji" (can you guess my fave album?) ROSCO (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —Maggie Cambron
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| | | | (...) It's only Logical what Song my favorite would have to be.... Maggie C. (22 years ago, 18-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —David Koudys
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| | | | (...) I was 9 when I bought 'Crime of the Century' -- LP!! (Still have it--I actually have 2 milk crates full of records and don't own a record player) I missed the 'Famous Last Words...' concert tour by 5 minutes--I was off timing and scorekeeping (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | (...) [snip] (...) hehe! And I like how they manage to sneak in a bit of Churchill's speech too 8?) But I gotta say, I rank Fleetwood Mac (various incarnations) above Supertramp - there's just more of their songs that I like! (And I got to see MF + (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | (...) Then you'd get along famously with my friend Andrew, who appreciates Fleetwood Mac more than any other band. He always gets bummed 'cause FM get these concert tours started but before they reach any venue close to here, they split up (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —Maggie Cambron
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| | | | | | (...) My favorite Fleetwood Mac era was when Bob Welch was with them. Must have been that phase of my childhood I spent in a bit of a fog. :-) I never cared too much for Bob Welch solo or FM before or after that. But then my favorite single FM song (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | (...) Yeah, kinda like Roger Hodgson leaving Supertramp for me... Tho I keep seeing Roger around Toronto on various shows 'n such--did he just put up his shingle in the GTA? So there's a debate for you--people who left 'big bands' and had successful (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | (...) lol, my dad bought a DVD player and got that DVD free with the purchase-- he gave it to me:-) (...) hehe For some reason, I never got into the Eagles-- I think maybe it was because they were *too* popular (I remember complaining that "New Kid (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) Ah, yes, I remember getting my first all-in-one stereo-- 8 track player, record player (we weren't sophisticated enough back then to call it a turntable;-) and radio. And THEN I got a cassette recorder with "Doubly"[1]! The very first song I (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.fun, John Neal writes: <snip> (...) If I had to peg it, COTC is it for me, tho their "Paris" album's my favourite listen. "Bon Soir Paris!..." ('specially the bit when he (I think it was Roger) went on about what he had for (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) For me, one would have to be from Alan Parsons Project (my all-time favorite), but *which* one... Others require more thought-- you can't rush into these types of decisions-- one never knows how long one will be deserted! BTW, Dave, in this (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | (...) Yeah, picture a guy in a red shirt, with white hat and pants, pedalling on a bamboo bikish/generator. The professor could build a nuclear generator out of 2 coconut shells and a string but couldn't fix a 3 foot hole in a boat! (some comedy (...) (22 years ago, 19-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —Ross Crawford
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| | | | | | (...) Yeah "Turn of a Friendly Card" is up there on my list. Also like "The Seekers" but which album? Think about it later... ROSCO (22 years ago, 22-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —Maggie Cambron
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| | | | | | | (...) Chocolate Peanut Butter Coffee Oh, wait, those are the three foods I would want.... The trouble is, I know my favorite albums so well I can play them in my head, so it might be worth choosing something else. Course, you'd have to hope you (...) (22 years ago, 22-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | (...) Check. (...) Check. (...) Huh? Thought that was a *beverage*. Reminds me of my college buddy who returned from a semester in England with a penchant for heavy beers-- "if you can't drink it with a fork, it's no good..." (...) Or that one (...) (22 years ago, 22-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | (...) What a scene--a stack of books, on the steps, he's about to sit down when *crunch!*, he steps on his glasses. Burgess Meredith, a.k.a. Mick from Rocky--'Catch the chicken, Rock!', 'I's liked ya better when you was hauling spit around...' or (...) (22 years ago, 22-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) My favorite (Rock to Mick) "Cut me, Mick!" -John (22 years ago, 23-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —Maggie Cambron
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| | | | | | | | (...) You kidding? It's my fifth basic food group. Or now that kids learn pyramids you could say it is one of the biggest blocks in the foundation of my food pyramid! (...) :D Hell would be being stuck on the island with only ABBA's greatest hits! (...) (22 years ago, 23-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —Lindsay Frederick Braun
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| | | | | | (...) I'm a total Alan Parsons nut. If you want an album that really sticks with you, seek out the Alan Parsons Project album that isn't an APP album; it's called "Freudiana." It's still my favorite, and it was the last AP/EW collaboration. But it (...) (22 years ago, 22-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) Cool! We APP nuts are a rare breed! (...) It is an *awesome* album! I found out about it through a web site some years ago and special ordered it. What a weird deal that was. Same band members, same format, same sound, but *not* an "Alan (...) (22 years ago, 22-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —Lindsay Frederick Braun
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| | | | | | (...) Yeah. I heard the story somewhere about why it's not branded that way, but I forget--but if I go to Vienna, I will have to see it on stage. ;) I can never hear Leo Sayer the same 1970s way again. (Say, what is it with Parsons and the (...) (22 years ago, 23-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Supertramp (was: Be careful ....) —John Neal
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| | | | | | (...) Or Chris Thompson-- he sang with *everyone*! (...) On CD? Didn't know one existed... Say, have you heard "Keats"? It's okay-- another attempt to fly without Eric, although he did mastermind the project ("Keats" is the name of his favorite (...) (22 years ago, 23-Jul-02, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | Supertramp (was supertramp... careful... whatever...) —David Koudys
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| | | | (...) OMGoodnesss!!!...!!! Started off with 'School'... Ended off (in the encore) with 'Crime of the Century'.... Rick Davies played 'Downstream' with just him and a piano for the entire song... 7 member band right now, including Siebenburg's son (I (...) (22 years ago, 30-Aug-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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