Subject:
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Re: Be careful what you ask for in case you actually get it (was: slight)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 18 Jul 2002 16:53:07 GMT
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Viewed:
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3859 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes:
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > It seems that you are suggesting that the nature of "a god" is to
> > "tell...*everything*?" Or at least that that is one facet of godhood. Yet,
> > the god you follow doesn't do that. So I'm left not clearly understanding
> > the reasoning behind your assertion.
This was kind of a sub-point that you took the wrong way. Instead of
discussing the stuff that stems from that, I'd like to restate slightly.
It seems when you claim that to some that science is a god _because_ those
people assert that science will tell us everything, that you are suggesting
that the nature of "a god" is to "tell...*everything*?" Or at least that this
is one facet of godhood. Yet, since I happen to know at least a little about
your religious thoughts and I know that the god you choose to follow does not,
in fact, "tell...*everything*, I am left not clearly understanding the
reasoning behind your assertion about the future explanatory power of science.
I hope that you see what I mean this time.
So now I'll make some specific comments.
> > Further, I think I'm the most adamant (in this venue) about the powers of
> > science, and I've never claimed that "science can tell us *everything*."
> > Merely that science is the only rational method of exploration of any
> > phenomena.
> >
> > And you haven't addressed how that might be wrong.
> >
> > So if I haven't said what you claim _someone_ thinks, then who does? Which
> > people are you talking about for whom science is a god?
> Christopher L. Weeks, for one:
But see, this is where I get confused. Above, you claim that those who hold
science as a god, claim that science can tell us *everything*. But that
Christopher guy -- I have it on pretty good authority, doesn't think that. He
thinks there are all kinds of things that science potentially can't tell us.
Most obviously, things that can't be known at all.
> > Merely that science is the only rational method of exploration of any
> > phenomena.
>
> I would put it to you that the assertion that *any* phenomena logically
> encompasses *all* phenomena.
>
> If you were to modify your assertion that science is the only rational
> method of exploring rational phenomena, then that's not *everything* then,
> is it?
What do you mean by rational phenomena? If you mean what I suspect you mean,
then YES, it is. But if you mean something tricky, then maybe not. What
exactly would the opposite -- an irrational phenomenon, be?
> Is my *faith* a phenomena?
Faith in general and your in specific, are certainly phenomena that one could
explore scientifically.
> I *can* say that my faith exists, therefore *something* is *outside*
> the purview of science.
Hunh? Try this completely equivalent (logically) statement:
I *can* say that gravity exists, therefore *something* is *outside*
the purview of science.
Do you see that this doesn't make any sense? I agree that your faith exists.
But where do you get the notion that is not something that we can explore
scientifically?
> Science cannot, with logic
> and rationality, deny it--it's there, and yet science cannot dispense with
> it, either, for it's not rational--it does not exist within the domain of
> science.
It sounds like you're saying science can't disprove it or disprove it..? The
reason that science can't disprove your faith is that your faith exists. What
I'd be interested in having people do through science is to explore the types
and origins of faith.
> I say the assertion that 'science can explore *any* phenomena' does
> not ring true.
I respect that. It happens to me too. And I trust my intuition to a fair
extent. But we're not always right in our intuition.
Chris
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