Subject:
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Re: LUGNet Chat
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.admin.general
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Date:
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Fri, 9 Oct 1998 20:57:23 GMT
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Viewed:
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1391 times
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Richard Franks <richard@__no_spam_please_im_veggie__spider.com> wrote in
message 361D3CC9.3F87@__no_spam_please_im_veggie__spider.com...
> Alex Wetmore wrote:
> >
> > Richard Franks wrote in message
> > <361CCF8D.873@__no_spam_please_im_veggie__spider.com>...
> > > The main draw for a talker over IRC would be that you can access it via
> > > standard telnet - which is a lot simpler for most users as virtually
> > > everyone with an internet connection has a version of telnet.
> >
> > This is also a drawback (and I can say this with experience, after
> > developing unix bbs software which was mostly used as a talker in its • heyday
> > (1994 or so). to see it telnet to yabbs.phred.org port 8888 or go to
> > http://www.phred.org/yabbs and download a yabbs client).
>
> Urgh! The reason that site has lag is because each individual character
> is sent, processed and returned - that is a very inefficient mechanism -
> say typing one line would generate at least 160 packets going across the
> network! The way most talkers work is that the characters that the user
> types are echoed locally only until the user presses return at which
> point the entire line is sent, which can be processed in one and
> returned. Ie - 2 packets for any length of line. Actually, there are
> probably additional acknowledgement packets in both cases, but I'm not
> 100% certain. I'm not trying to be pedantic - but the site that you
> mentioned wasn't really in line with what I was suggesting :)
Talkers of the type which you are talking about are very hard to use unless
you use a special telnet client such as tinyfugue. Without one incoming
talk lines will show up in the middle of what you are typing.
Hence, telnet as a talk client isn't really a good thing. You either need
character by character mode (what I did to make my system work well, but its
slow if you use telnet instead of a yabbs client) or a line by line mode
(hard to use or need a special telnet client which splits up sent and
received data). Both require downloading software. If someone is going to
download software it might as well be an IRC client (which many folks have
already and most of which are well tested and supported).
> > An IRC network would allow someone to use a graphical client. If we want
> > something that is easy for users to use then I'm sure someone could • develop
> > a Java based client to IRC (or there must be 10 or 15 out there already)
> > which could be run interactively on a webpage. For the rest of us who
> > already use IRC (I also use it on a private network... the public ones
> > aren't very interesting) we could just open up another session to LUGNet
> > when we have a chance to talk Lego (probably not too often for me).
>
> Does it need a GUI? It seems like a lot of extra baggage :) I'd need to
> download some IRC thing for my sparc, or else use netscape.. which would
> probably crash under the excitement ;) I think the core learning
> concepts of IRC and Talkers are the same.. so adding graphics won't make
> it easier, but it might restrict someone from connecting who doesn't
> have the right software or machine.
There is a standard unix irc client which is text based called ircII. Its
pretty small (about the same size as vi on my FreeBSD system).
Many computer users are happier with GUI based clients. Menus, cut and
paste, etc are familiar concepts to a lot of people. Command line
interfaces aren't. IRC offers either, with tons of well supported clients
out there.
> IRC puts another barrier between the user and access - some
> workplaces/unis won't allow it to be used or installed and some
> computers don't have it anyway - requiring someone to download it.
The universities that I know of which don't allow IRC also don't allow MUDs
and talkers because they are considered a waste of computer resources. Both
probably cause similar numbers of students to drop out due to falling behind
in classes.
As we have concluded, a talker requires a programing to be installed too.
You need tinyfugue or another "MUD" telnet client which splits sent and
received data to make it easy to parse what is going on. If you do this on
the server end then you get character-by-character mode, which is slow.
> IRC is good for getting to know facts, but Talkers are good for getting
> to know people.
IRC is software. It is for talking to people. So are talkers. IRC is just
built around a
standard RFC'd protocol with many implementations. Talkers aren't.
The EFNet IRC Network (the largest of the IRC networks) might not be useful
for talking to people, but that is due to its huge size and the type of
people on it. I'm not suggesting that we use that. I'm suggesting that
LUGNet install their own IRC server on lugnet.com and welcome people on it.
If many people start using it then perhaps it could grow to have multiple
servers to make it quicker/easier for foreign users.
alex
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: LUGNet Chat
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| (...) That's not true. Linemode is a standard telnet option and should be supported by any good telnet client. See RFC #1184. A lot of places don't use this so that you don't have to press enter after every command. Which is generally a poor (...) (26 years ago, 9-Oct-98, to lugnet.admin.general)
| | | Re: LUGNet Chat
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| (...) Not necessarily. I played on SouCon MUSH and PernMUSH for MONTHS using telnet only. (It was at least a year before I had access to tf) Sure, now that I have tf I would be hard-pressed to go back to plain telnet. But it CAN be done. ANd it is (...) (26 years ago, 9-Oct-98, to lugnet.admin.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: LUGNet Chat
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| (...) Urgh! The reason that site has lag is because each individual character is sent, processed and returned - that is a very inefficient mechanism - say typing one line would generate at least 160 packets going across the network! The way most (...) (26 years ago, 8-Oct-98, to lugnet.admin.general)
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