 | | | | | |
I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
See the the auction page here
Thank you.
Eric Sophie
www.biomechanicalbricks.com
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
--SNIP BLATANT ADVERTISING--
Hi Eric,
You have been previously had your violations of the .build.mecha TOS
pointed out by John Neal so why
are you advertising your products here again?
This MOC is not new, there is nothing new about the post at all except that it
is an ad for your latest auction. It seems to me that you think you are beyond
the TOS of LUGNET with these repeated violations of the TOS. Made all the worse
by the fact that as a curator of the group you are expected to play somewhat of
a leading role.
Please show some respect for the creators of this forum, the posters who
frequent it and the contract you signed when joining and cease this practise.
Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Oh boy, look, my target audience is the .mecha crowd, I want them to know about
it. The respect of the TOS is in my setting a follow up to the post.
All replies, if any should be posted to the market place group.
Instead of picking a nit with me, how about just wishing me luck.
e
(what I don't understand is when a person has an item of interest to a
particular group, why can't they include the group in question. Continuing to
flood the group with the related posts would be wrong, setting a follow up so as
to stick to the topic, the sale is the proper course of action.)
Tell you what, until someone helps to maintain an air of civility around here,
I'll continue to post sales informational ONLY cross posts to this group, until
I sell every f'n peice of my Lego. Cause I really want out.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
(what I don’t understand is when a person has an item of interest to a
particular group, why can’t they include the group in question.
|
Hi Eric, maybe I can help.
The TOS states (Under Discussion
Group Terms and Conditions):
“(do not) Post auction announcements, updates, or listings ... in discussion
groups which do not explicitly welcome their presence.”
lugnet.build.mecha DOES NOT explicitly welcome their presence (it’s charter is
available here), so auction
announcements are not welcome here.
If someone is looking to buy things, they will be keeping an eye on the
.marketplace groups anyway, and they will see it there, so there is no need to
cross-post (even with followups set to .marketplace).
I hope that helps.
ROSCO
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
Oh boy, look, my target audience is the .mecha crowd, I want them to know
about it. The respect of the TOS is in my setting a follow up to the post.
|
I don’t care who your target audience is. Given the lack of sale of your last
auction I’d say your target audience is zero which is exactly how much you
should have posted in .build.mecha. Regardless of whether or not I think it will
sell though, you have every right to post in the correct forums and I would
defend that right if it was challenged. You do not have that right to post in
.build.mecha.
| |
All replies, if any should be posted to the market place group.
Instead of picking a nit with me, how about just wishing me luck.
e
|
How about you show some respect for other people rather than hiding behind you
bulls**t. If you want people to treat you with respect then show some respect
for them by obeying the rules of the site.
| |
(what I don’t understand is when a person has an item of interest to a
particular group, why can’t they include the group in question. Continuing to
flood the group with the related posts would be wrong, setting a follow up so
as to stick to the topic, the sale is the proper course of action.)
|
Your opinion of the TOS doesn’t matter. What it says does. This has been pointed
out to you before.
| |
Tell you what, until someone helps to maintain an air of civility around here,
I’ll continue to post sales informational ONLY cross posts to this group,
until I sell every f’n peice of my Lego. Cause I really want out.
|
When you learn to be civil, then you can lecture others. Until then you have no
voice to speak with. I was civil, I posted politely and I posted respectfully
which was more than I thought you deserved but I was brought up that way. I see
from you response that I was wrong to treat you with dignity.
Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
I haven’t posted that much in the last 10 years on LUGNET, but when I do it’s
for a good cause.
This should be a public community which fosters positive LEGO-related
experiences, just as it was intentded by Todd Lehman, and Suzanne Rich-Green.
Please restrain flame wars from the LUGNET community. Thank you.
-jeremy rear
proud gplr member since 1998
visit: gplr
| |
How about you show some respect for other people rather than hiding behind
you bulls**t. If you want people to treat you with respect then show some
respect for them by obeying the rules of the site.
|
(snip)
| |
| |
Tell you what, until someone helps to maintain an air of civility around
here, I’ll continue to post sales informational ONLY cross posts to this
group, until I sell every f’n peice of my Lego. Cause I really want out.
|
|
(snip)
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Jeremy Rear wrote:
| |
I haven’t posted that much in the last 10 years on LUGNET, but when I do it’s
for a good cause.
This should be a public community which fosters positive LEGO-related
experiences, just as it was intentded by Todd Lehman, and Suzanne Rich-Green.
Please restrain flame wars from the LUGNET community. Thank you.
-jeremy rear
proud gplr member since 1998
visit: gplr
|
Dear Jeremy,
I take it from you snips that you have issue with the self-censored swearing in
this thread. I can’t speak for Eric but I know I thought hard about whether or
not I should use that word and decided that it has a) appeared in lugnet in
various guises before without complaint and b) was the most appropriate word
to use under the circumstances.
Perhaps you feel that there is no time for even mild swearing (in Australia I
doubt that bu* is considered a swearword at any legal level let alone in the
public view but I realise USAians often have stricter views) and that is your
right but I happen to disagree with it very strongly and were I to write that
post again I would use the same word again. I will respect and have respected
other people beliefs about what is right but I also hope for them to extend that
same respect to mine.
Tim
PS. Follow-up set to .off-topic.debate
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
In lugnet.build.mecha, Timothy Gould wrote:
> In lugnet.build.mecha, Jeremy Rear wrote:
> > I haven't posted that much in the last 10 years on LUGNET, but when I do
> > it's for a good cause.
> >
> > This should be a public community which fosters positive LEGO-related
> > experiences, just as it was intentded by Todd Lehman, and Suzanne
> > Rich-Green.
> >
> > Please restrain flame wars from the LUGNET community. Thank you.
> >
> > -jeremy rear
> >
> > {proud gplr member since 1998}
> >
> > visit: [<http://www.gplr.org gplr>]
>
>
> Dear Jeremy,
>
> [...] Perhaps you feel that there is no time for even mild swearing (in
> Australia I doubt that bu* is considered a swearword at any legal level
> let alone in the public view
Is this in fact what Jeremy was refering to?
http://news.lugnet.com/build/mecha/?n=14293
I know LUGNET doesn't have a list of "okay swearwords", but I'd think if stated
as "BS" it'd go by unnoticed.
I haven't read every post in this thread yet, just the ones which have come
through .admin because I get alerted to those in my main e-mail box. (As an
aside, it's always odd for me to hear arguments that way because they've usually
already become quite heated..) I plan to check out this whole "fight"(?) later
today.
Frankly, comments like this bother me more:
> but I realise USAians often have stricter views)
:-\ strictly my own opinion, of course. ...it just seemed
inappropriate/unnecessary.
Jeremy's comment above seems like friendly common sense. It's too bad that the
context of his post could cause it to be taken personally. (just an observation)
More later,
-Suz
everyone please relax meantime.
[thread brought over to .admin.general]
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
> Tell you what, until someone helps to maintain an air of civility around here,
> I'll continue to post sales informational ONLY cross posts to this group, until
> I sell every f'n peice of my Lego. Cause I really want out.
In that case I recommend you forego trying to sell stuff on Auctionbrick. It
really isn't a high traffic site, and 'artwork' especially doesn't seem to sell
very readily unless it has transparent baseplates.
You'll probably get better prices on Ebay, or, if you're prepared to do a bit
more work, selling your supply piecemeal on Bricklink is probably best of all.
Hope this helps.
Allister
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
I don't know if eric is still reading this, But I noticed that no one has
cleared answered the questions below, bar from pointing to the TOS
> (what I don't understand is when a person has an item of interest to a
> particular group, why can't they include the group in question. Continuing to
> flood the group with the related posts would be wrong, setting a follow up so as
> to stick to the topic, the sale is the proper course of action.)
This is an reasonable question. In this case it comes down to precident, and
then the slippery slope.
If your allowed to advertise an auction in any group outside of the sale area,
it starts a precident, although you have set the followup back to
lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, It shows by example that hey, it's OK to put the
initial advert in a non sales group. then Joe Blogs down the street also wants
to sell his mech, and does like wise, Jane Bloge a week later decides to sell
her custom pirate ship, and puts it up in pirates as well as fut to Market.
Soon groups that are designed to discuss themes are full of sales adverts to
related objects and less about showing off new MOC's
So then the admins are forced to step in to enforce the TOS. They go to Jane
Bloge and explain that she has steped out of bounds, her reply, is that others
before her have, and nothing happened to them, so why should she be punished.
This is the effect of precident.
The fact you are a curator increases the affect of the precident, you are in a
position of responsability and likewise are required to set an example. If you
are allowed to post like this, even if it is only once with FUT to the market
group, it sets the wrong example. If the admins then go to Joe Blog and enforce
the TOS on him, John cries foul and claims favoritism as a curator can do it ,
but not a regular member.
This is why TOS must always be enforced evenly and across the board, and why
even one incorrect post can cause a precident if not acted on.
Hopefully this has explained what a lot of the fuss is about in a clear way
Aaron Amatnieks
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
|
Well as always I think you’re asking too much for too little, but if you think
you can move your product at that price I suppose it’s worth trying.
A quick question I know you’ll find relevant - you do have permission from the
artist of the original image to alter his or her work and use it in your
promotional materials, don’t you? I ask because you’re legally liable to quite a
sum if you haven’t.
And I recall an earlier tirade of yours concerning
artistic respect that seems relevant
to the issue. To quote the post in question:
”Fine fine, do you really need me or anyone to tell you what you did was not
cool?
No respect for the builder’s copy written photos.
No respect for the Terms of Service for Brickshelf, Maj.com, or Lugnet.
No meaningful comment on the model itself.“
I’m sure this is just an unfounded suspicion though. Good luck!
Soren
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Eric Sophie wrote:
> HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
1) You didn't answer his question. Not that it's any of my buisness, but the man
has a point, and my delurking here to emphasise this should tell you that.
2) You made me scroll for no reason. I hate scrolling in general, and scrolling
for no reason in particular.
3) Now that you've made it clear that you 'want out', when will you be leaving?
Legoswami
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
I’d like to start off by saying that this is NOT a IRON MECHA related post
and the sale of The Qwelder Mech is NOT an IRON MECHA related activity.
Eric
Two things.
I percieve that you are using the leading words Iron Mecha to help bolster
attention to your auction. I wish you didn’t. I further don’t think to the
people that would recognize the term Iron Mecha would be infuenced to bid on
your auction. I am requesting that you remove the words IRON MECHA from your
headers regarding this auction.
I never did get permission to use that artwork, BUT on legal council I find that
as long as money was never concerned regarding the artwork, usage of it should
be fine. As such I cannot condone your use of the artwork in this post.
Also
please consider that when we have non-english speaking artists (like Gla) who
disappear for no reason (like Gla) it’s probably because of abuse of their art.
Mark Neumann
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
eh heh.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Eric Sophie wrote:
> eh heh.
Nice disregard for your friend Mark. What you fail to acknowlege is that you've
put him in an odd situation. You've hijacked the art from the Iron Mecha contest
without permission. I'd excpect that most people would take down the artwork and
make ammends. You, however, are not most people.
The most ironic part of this is that had someone taken your artwork and used it
you'd be screaming at the top of your lungs. But again you are only showing
again that the rules you impose on others don't apply to you. I won't even
bother acting suprised.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
e,
You know I've been one of your biggest fans, and am a proponent of keeping
things civil and peaceful, but, as some others have stated, this post does go
against the ToU. Specifically--
http://www.lugnet.com/admin/terms/agreement
11. (do not) Post auction announcements, updates, or listings (“auction spam”)
in discussion groups which do not explicitly welcome their presence. If you are
unsure whether auction spam is appropriate in a given discussion group, check
the group’s descriptive charter. If the discussion group’s charter does not
explicitly say that auction postings are allowed in the group, then such posts
are not welcome. Currently, the only LUGNET discussion group which allows
auction spam is lugnet.market.auction, which was established specifically for
auctions.
Even if you set the FUT to .auction, the original post was posted to other
newsgroups. The mecha group doesn't explicitly welcome auction posts (that I've
seen).
Dave K
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, David Koudys wrote:
<snip>
| |
The mecha group doesn’t explicitly welcome auction posts (that I’ve
seen).
|
I’m guessing you meant “The mecha group explicitly doesn’t welcome auction
posts...”
That foundcounded lysdexia...
JOHN
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, David Koudys wrote:
<snip>
| |
The mecha group doesn’t explicitly welcome auction posts (that I’ve
seen).
|
I’m guessing you meant “The mecha group explicitly doesn’t welcome auction
posts...”
|
Auction posts are unwelcome in ALL groups unless the group explicitly welcomes
them, and .build.mecha doesn’t explicitly welcome them, so I see no problem with
Dave’s sentence. And as .build.mecha does not “explicitly not welcome” them, I
don’t see why you think that’s what Dave meant.
| |
That foundcounded lysdexia...
|
Do you mean “foncounded”?
ROSCO
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Ross Crawford wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, David Koudys wrote:
<snip>
| |
The mecha group doesn’t explicitly welcome auction posts (that I’ve
seen).
|
I’m guessing you meant “The mecha group explicitly doesn’t welcome auction
posts...”
|
Auction posts are unwelcome in ALL groups unless the group explicitly
welcomes them, and .build.mecha doesn’t explicitly welcome them, so I see no
problem with Dave’s sentence. And as .build.mecha does not “explicitly not
welcome” them, I don’t see why you think that’s what Dave meant.
|
Well, here’s where I’m confused. It’s really irrelevant whether or not auction
posts are welcomed by participants, since they are explicitly unwelcome, as
spelled out in the TOS.
| |
| |
That foundcounded lysdexia...
|
Do you mean “foncounded”?
|
Topato, tapato.
JOHN
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Ross Crawford wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, David Koudys wrote:
<snip>
| |
The mecha group doesn’t explicitly welcome auction posts (that I’ve
seen).
|
I’m guessing you meant “The mecha group explicitly doesn’t welcome auction
posts...”
|
Auction posts are unwelcome in ALL groups unless the group explicitly
welcomes them, and .build.mecha doesn’t explicitly welcome them, so I see no
problem with Dave’s sentence. And as .build.mecha does not “explicitly not
welcome” them, I don’t see why you think that’s what Dave meant.
|
Well, here’s where I’m confused. It’s really irrelevant whether or not
auction posts are welcomed by participants, since they are explicitly
unwelcome, as spelled out in the TOS.
|
They are not explicitly unwelcome in any group charters (that I’m aware of).
The unwelcomeness in any particular group is implicit (not explicit) from
the overall site TOS, unless explicitly welcomed in the group charter (which
is not the case in .build.mecha).
Clear?
ROSCO
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Ross Crawford wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Ross Crawford wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, David Koudys wrote:
<snip>
| |
The mecha group doesn’t explicitly welcome auction posts (that I’ve
seen).
|
I’m guessing you meant “The mecha group explicitly doesn’t welcome auction
posts...”
|
Auction posts are unwelcome in ALL groups unless the group explicitly
welcomes them, and .build.mecha doesn’t explicitly welcome them, so I see
no problem with Dave’s sentence. And as .build.mecha does not “explicitly
not welcome” them, I don’t see why you think that’s what Dave meant.
|
Well, here’s where I’m confused. It’s really irrelevant whether or not
auction posts are welcomed by participants, since they are explicitly
unwelcome, as spelled out in the TOS.
|
They are not explicitly unwelcome in any group charters (that I’m aware
of). The unwelcomeness in any particular group is implicit (not explicit)
from the overall site TOS, unless explicitly welcomed in the group charter
(which is not the case in .build.mecha).
Clear?
|
I finally had to go back and read the particular TOS. I had assumed that
auction spam was flat-out forbidden; it appears that a group can in theory
allow such posts (although I have no idea how this would be decided upon).
Thanks,
JOHN
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Ross Crawford wrote:
| |
They are not explicitly unwelcome in any group charters (that I’m aware
of). The unwelcomeness in any particular group is implicit (not
explicit) from the overall site TOS, unless explicitly welcomed in the
group charter (which is not the case in .build.mecha).
|
I finally had to go back and read the particular TOS. I had assumed that
auction spam was flat-out forbidden; it appears that a group can in theory
allow such posts (although I have no idea how this would be decided upon).
|
Check out .org.au
In mentioning this though, I realise the .loc.au charter doesn’t explicitly allow such postings, so there are probably
many TOS violations in that group, not to mention the sidebar. Hmmmm. Maybe time
to get the charter changed. If possible.
ROSCO
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Ross Crawford wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, John Neal wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Ross Crawford wrote:
| |
They are not explicitly unwelcome in any group charters (that I’m aware
of). The unwelcomeness in any particular group is implicit (not
explicit) from the overall site TOS, unless explicitly welcomed in the
group charter (which is not the case in .build.mecha).
|
I finally had to go back and read the particular TOS. I had assumed that
auction spam was flat-out forbidden; it appears that a group can in theory
allow such posts (although I have no idea how this would be decided upon).
|
Check out .org.au
In mentioning this though, I realise the .loc.au charter doesn’t explicitly allow such postings, so there are
probably many TOS violations in that group, not to mention the sidebar.
Hmmmm. Maybe time to get the charter changed. If possible.
ROSCO
|
IIRC the .org hierarchy was partially set up as a place where people could offer
things for sale to their local area. I can remember that years ago a certain
Australian got banned from posting for advertising sales in .loc.au but was then
allowed back when they posted them to .org.au
Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
Dear all,
In light of Eric’s refusal to respect other people, copyright law or the Terms
of Service of Lugnet I would respectfully ask anyone who was considering
purchasing one of Eric’s creations to please not do so.
Thanks you,
Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Jlug to the rescue.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Eric Sophie wrote:
Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Timothy Gould wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
Dear all,
In light of Eric’s refusal to respect other people, copyright law or the
Terms of Service of Lugnet I would respectfully ask anyone who was
considering purchasing one of Eric’s creations to please not do so.
Thanks you,
Tim
|
Yeah, and no one sit next to him on the bus, either!
Eric’s posting obviously violated the TOS, and he should ask for it to be
cancelled. But most of the people posting about it are just using it to pursue
their feud with Eric.
Just for the record, Eric and I aren’t pals - I don’t think we’ve ever spoken.
But I don’t like people using LUGNET as a forum for bullying. Do it
somewhere else.
Marc Nelson Jr.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Timothy Gould wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
Dear all,
In light of Eric’s refusal to respect other people, copyright law or the
Terms of Service of Lugnet I would respectfully ask anyone who was
considering purchasing one of Eric’s creations to please not do so.
Thanks you,
Tim
|
aka
“HOLY CARP, ERIC DIDNT POST IN THE RIGHT FORUM,LETS USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE TO
DESTROY HIM BECAUSE WE DONT LIKE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!”
See, this is what happens when you roll the dice and don’t have any moderation.
You have people posting in the wrong forum, putting up profanity, and there
always has to be some kind of uproar or termoil in order to get something done.
I suggest Lugnet grows a sack, gets some fair moderators, and actually rules
this place like a forum with a sense of order. You all have proven you can’t
co-habitate because of the chidish activity that flares up on a semi-monthly
basis as Lugnet’s declining post per day ratio continues to plummet.
My 29,000 members on BZP don’t act like this, and its because they know there is
a certain decorum at BZP that is to be upheld and respected. Lugnet lacks that,
and it needs it badly.
Look, I am not taking sides either way on this, but I find the selective
enforcement of the rules by mass-hysteria here disgusting, and its a shame that
it is allowed to happen.
I just hope you start moving topics and enforcing policy for everyone, not just
the people you have deemed targets.
That is all. Back to my corner of the LEGO world.
Rex
bzpower.com
owner
admin
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Rich Manzo wrote:
| |
“HOLY CARP, ERIC DIDNT POST IN THE RIGHT FORUM,LETS USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE TO
DESTROY HIM BECAUSE WE DONT LIKE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!”
|
This post would be more appropriately placed in lugnet.admin.general or even
lugnet.admin.suggestions.
Thankyou for your co-operation.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
“HOLY CARP, ERIC DIDNT POST IN THE RIGHT FORUM,LETS USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE TO
DESTROY HIM BECAUSE WE DONT LIKE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!”
|
More like “HOLY CARP, FOR THE SECOND TIME ERIC POSTED AN AD WHERE HE SHOULDN’T
EVEN THOUGH HE’S BEEN ASKED NOT TO BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!”
The not liking him is a side issue. There are plenty of people posting here who
have no issues with Eric but who still don’t want him to breech the ToS.
| |
See, this is what happens when you roll the dice and don’t have any
moderation. You have people posting in the wrong forum, putting up profanity,
and there always has to be some kind of uproar or termoil in order to get
something done.
|
Actually that’s more like what happens when people refuse to play fair. Let’s
not avoid the fact that ERIC HAS DONE THIS BEFORE AND BEEN TOLD OFF FOR IT...
not by me or any of his perceived (or otherwise) enemies but by a totally
neutral party.
| |
I suggest Lugnet grows a sack, gets some fair moderators, and actually rules
this place like a forum with a sense of order. You all have proven you can’t
co-habitate because of the chidish activity that flares up on a semi-monthly
basis as Lugnet’s declining post per day ratio continues to plummet.
|
Your suggestion has been noted.
| |
My 29,000 members on BZP don’t act like this, and its because they know there
is a certain decorum at BZP that is to be upheld and respected. Lugnet lacks
that, and it needs it badly.
|
I have no problem with moderation but I’m not keen on frequenting anywhere with
it. I know I’m not alone in this given the growing membership of jlug.
| |
Look, I am not taking sides either way on this, but I find the selective
enforcement of the rules by mass-hysteria here disgusting, and its a shame
that it is allowed to happen.
|
What selective enforcement? Could you point out where I or anyone else
complaining about Eric’s beaviour have consciously ignored such a severe breach
before?
| |
I just hope you start moving topics and enforcing policy for everyone, not
just the people you have deemed targets.
|
See above point.
| |
That is all. Back to my corner of the LEGO world.
Rex
bzpower.com
owner
admin
|
I’m glad you made your opinion known. Please come again and post next time there
is something you don’t like. I hear that really makes for a positive forum.
Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Timothy Gould yak yaked:
You and others are being selective.
When I witnessed foul language on LUGNET, no one said anything.
When I see other people's images being molested, no one said anything.
When a posting issue takes place, you all jump on. Whateva.
The TOS you and others quote has a loophole that you all have interpreted to
suit your poor attitudes.
e
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Timothy Gould yak yaked:
You and others are being selective.
When I witnessed foul language on LUGNET, no one said anything.
When I see other people’s images being molested, no one said anything.
When a posting issue takes place, you all jump on. Whateva.
The TOS you and others quote has a loophole that you all have interpreted to
suit your poor attitudes.
e
|
How many times does it have to be explained to you before it seeps into that
drug soaked blancmange you use for a brain?
Read the thread again. The only poor attitude here is yours, Eric. The sooner
you realise that, the better off we will all be.
But, by all means continue with your insane ramblings. I for one find posts like
the ‘Evil Oppressors’ one hugely entertaining.
Allister
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Eric Sophie wrote:
I guess that’d be the view from inside said defective organ.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Click to support
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Eric Sophie wrote:
Hmmm... tough one.
Every time you piss someone off on Lugnet you add another fig to the jar?
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Allister McLaren wrote:
| |
In lugnet.off-topic.fun, Eric Sophie wrote:
Hmmm... tough one.
Every time you piss someone off on Lugnet you add another fig to the jar?
|
Nah... It’s obviously some evil voodoo witchcraft thing. Maybe that prominent
archer fig without his pants is you... Everyone knows that The secret of Captain
Underpant’s powers lie in his underpants, after all.
Legoswami
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Timothy Gould yak yaked:
You and others are being selective.
When I witnessed foul language on LUGNET, no one said anything.
When I see other people’s images being molested, no one said anything.
When a posting issue takes place, you all jump on. Whateva.
The TOS you and others quote has a loophole that you all have interpreted to
suit your poor attitudes.
e
|
What you have there aren’t examples. An example is where you refer to something
that happened. eg. this is an example of
Rich Manzo’s attitude to Lugnet, this is an example of your flagrant disregard for the ToS and
this is an example of me
being an ass (as in the donkey, not the swearword, I spell the other one with an
r and an e) to you.
I didn’t jump in. I posted the first response. And if I hadn’t I’m sure someone
else would have soon enough. Besides, this is NOT THE POINT. The point is you
did something wrong. Whether “your enemies” are out to get you is totally
irrelevant. YOU DID SOMETHING WRONG.
So when you talk about poor attitude, look at yourself before looking at others.
The proportion of responses in this thread from people who aren’t your “evil
oppressors” should give you cause for concern. If it doesn’t then I’m afraid you
will never again have my sympathy regardless of how badly other people treat
you.
Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Whateva, you still suck.
e
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.geek, Eric Sophie wrote:
> Whateva, you still suck.
>
> e
By posting it in .geek are you implying Tim is a geek or are you trying to defy
us evil oppressors again by posting it in the wrong group?
Just asking.
Legoswami
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.geek, Samarth Moray wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.geek, Eric Sophie wrote:
> > Whateva, you still suck.
> >
> > e
>
> By posting it in .geek are you implying Tim is a geek or are you trying to defy
> us evil oppressors again by posting it in the wrong group?
>
> Just asking.
>
> Legoswami
No, you suck too.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.off-topic.geek, Eric Sophie wrote:
> In lugnet.off-topic.geek, Samarth Moray wrote:
> > In lugnet.off-topic.geek, Eric Sophie wrote:
> > > Whateva, you still suck.
> > >
> > > e
> >
> > By posting it in .geek are you implying Tim is a geek or are you trying to defy
> > us evil oppressors again by posting it in the wrong group?
> >
> > Just asking.
> >
> > Legoswami
>
> No, you suck too.
Is that a 'no' to the first statement, second or both?
Legoswami
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Rich Manzo wrote:
> In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Timothy Gould wrote:
> >
> > Dear all,
> >
> > In light of Eric's refusal to respect other people, copyright law or the
> > Terms of Service of Lugnet I would respectfully ask anyone who was
> > considering purchasing one of Eric's creations to please not do so.
> >
> > Thanks you,
> >
> > Tim
>
> aka
>
> "HOLY CARP, ERIC DIDNT POST IN THE RIGHT FORUM,LETS USE THIS AS AN EXCUSE TO
> DESTROY HIM BECAUSE WE DONT LIKE HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!"
>
> See, this is what happens when you roll the dice and don't have any
> moderation. You have people posting in the wrong forum, putting up profanity,
> and there always has to be some kind of uproar or termoil in order to get
> something done.
>
> I suggest Lugnet grows a sack, gets some fair moderators, and actually rules
> this place like a forum with a sense of order. You all have proven you can't
> co-habitate because of the chidish activity that flares up on a semi-monthly
> basis as Lugnet's declining post per day ratio continues to plummet.
>
> My 29,000 members on BZP don't act like this, and its because they know there
> is a certain decorum at BZP that is to be upheld and respected. Lugnet lacks
> that, and it needs it badly.
>
> Look, I am not taking sides either way on this, but I find the selective
> enforcement of the rules by mass-hysteria here disgusting, and its a shame
> that it is allowed to happen.
>
> I just hope you start moving topics and enforcing policy for everyone, not
> just the people you have deemed targets.
>
> That is all. Back to my corner of the LEGO world.
>
> Rex
>
> bzpower.com
> owner
> admin
I haven't followed this dabate[sic] for a long time nor do I care to at this
point. However please keep it out of the market forum; it doesnt belong here.
-Rich
um... I mean Jude
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
Dear all,
In light of Eric’s refusal to respect other people, copyright law or the
Terms of Service of Lugnet I would respectfully ask anyone who was
considering purchasing one of Eric’s creations to please not do so.
Thanks you,
Tim
|
Dear all,
In light of Eric’s time out from Lugnet I would like to cancel the above
request.
Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
Hello folks,
during the last weeks there was really low traffic on .build.mecha. And now!
Four of ten entries in the Spotlight are in this wonderful thread.
This thread has already more response than Dragon by Mark Neumann. And this was one of the best builds this year!
Violation of ToS and other stuff seems to get higher priority than MOC. Is
this the way LUGNet is going to be in future?
Don’t get me wrong. What Eric did, was not correct. It even wasn’t the first
time he did it. So the reply by Timothy Gould was ok. The one by
Mark Neumann too and
also the one Soren
Roberts did, although it is harsh IMHO. Eric’s answers to the last two were
displaced.
So far it was ok to me. But then the crowd chimed in! Maybe I’m getting old, but
I don’t remember to have read most of the names in .build.mecha during the last
two years. But I neber was good in keeping names.
BTW, at the moment this thread holds the two topmost positions on the LUGNet
home page. I can’t remember any MOC which received this honor.
LUGNet isn’t fun in those days.
I’m sorry for that
Marco
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
Hello folks,
during the last weeks there was really low traffic on .build.mecha. And now!
Four of ten entries in the Spotlight are in this wonderful thread.
This thread has already more response than
Dragon by Mark Neumann. And this was
one of the best builds this year!
Violation of ToS and other stuff seems to get higher priority than MOC. Is
this the way LUGNet is going to be in future?
Don’t get me wrong. What Eric did, was not correct. It even wasn’t the first
time he did it. So the reply by Timothy Gould was ok. The one by
Mark Neumann too and
also the one Soren
Roberts did, although it is harsh IMHO. Eric’s answers to the last two were
displaced.
So far it was ok to me. But then the crowd chimed in! Maybe I’m getting old,
but I don’t remember to have read most of the names in .build.mecha during
the last two years. But I neber was good in keeping names.
BTW, at the moment this thread holds the two topmost positions on the LUGNet
home page. I can’t remember any MOC which received this honor.
LUGNet isn’t fun in those days.
I’m sorry for that
Marco
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Hi Marco,
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Marco Tagliaferri wrote:
| |
Hello folks,
during the last weeks there was really low traffic on .build.mecha. And now!
Four of ten entries in the Spotlight are in this wonderful thread.
|
Trains is the busiest it’s been in a while too with speculation over whether or
not 9V engines are here to stay. Unfortunately what people don’t like tends to
get more responses than what they do like.
| |
This thread has already more response than
Dragon by Mark Neumann. And this was
one of the best builds this year!
|
I think a lot of people responded to this over on Classic Space Forums and/or
MOCpages so it wasn’t quite as ignored as it might appear.
| |
Violation of ToS and other stuff seems to get higher priority than MOC. Is
this the way LUGNet is going to be in future?
|
Not so much higher priority as wider priority. It is an issue that effects
everyone, not just mecha builders.
| |
Don’t get me wrong. What Eric did, was not correct. It even wasn’t the first
time he did it. So the reply by Timothy Gould was ok. The one by
Mark Neumann too and
also the one Soren
Roberts did, although it is harsh IMHO. Eric’s answers to the last two were
displaced.
|
As you said “it wasn’t the first time he did it”. This probably brought more
people out to comment on it.
| |
So far it was ok to me. But then the crowd chimed in! Maybe I’m getting old,
but I don’t remember to have read most of the names in .build.mecha during
the last two years. But I neber was good in keeping names.
|
Addressed above.
| |
BTW, at the moment this thread holds the two topmost positions on the LUGNet
home page. I can’t remember any MOC which received this honor.
|
I think people are using this thread to make a stand against something they
disagree with. If Eric was a Duplo builder doing the same thing it would be in
.duplo but it just so happens he’s one of yours. People probably should have
moved their responses to .general or somewhere else and I considered it but
wasn’t really sure where to move it.
| |
LUGNet isn’t fun in those days.
|
I’m sorry to hear that. It is important to keep in mind though that sometimes
the occassional flamewar or whatever you wish to call this thread is neccessary
for people to vent their annoyances. Were more people to do what Eric was doing
and turn the whole of Lugnet into a billboard then it would be much less fun
IMO.
Thank you for taking the time to write this in a non-confrontational way. I’ve
seen far too many posts by people (not naming names but I hope they know who
they are) which are as rude/aggressive/etc. as the behaviour they claim to
dislike.
Tim
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
|
A message to the Evil Oppressors:
Your disparagment and oppression only serves to strengthen my resolve.
I have 5000+ views on the Qwelder-Mech Gallery that says it is a good idea to
let folks know about the sale.
No one speaks for the “mecha community”. None of you.
Selling the Qwelder-Mech was a hard decision for me.
I want it to have a good home.
I cannot continue to own a war machine.
That is my personal choice.
I believe the people who spend their time oppressing me have no compassion.
No breadth of scope. No understanding of my dream.
The proceeds of this model will put food on my table and continue to maintain a
roof over my head. This is not me just trying to turn a buck, this is a person
trying to free himself of many years of collecting.
Those who attempt to oppress my way of life have no room in their heart to see
fellow Lego Fan succeed at a mutual craft.
Jealousy controls you, hatred motivates you.
The same people, the same hatred.
I created a graphic to honor the image presented to the contestees.
The graphic has been online for weeks now.
No one raised a concern when I posted it originally.
Only now that there is a platform to complain do the malcontents rasie their
heads.
I have decided to protest your oppression.
I will post an image of my choosing, one day, each day for 30 days.
If you wish to add your voice, click on the image.
The view counts will say all that is needed.
You need not put yourself in the line of fire.
I respect your anonymity.
Sending me your personal emails encouraging me is fine.
However you allow me to suffer in public.
This is understandable considering the negative effects that may come your way.
I must do everything in my power to reach those who may be interested in owning
one of my creations. I have a total of $1000+ in sales this month alone. I am
proud of that and I am glad to provide the best quality models I can manage.
I do not wish to fight. I only wish to create.
I will continue to create until I have no more Lego.
The title of this post is acurate, this is an IRON MECHA, and it is FOR SALE.
I say to all that read this, I did not wantingly violate TOS.
I say to all that read this, I sell my creations so that others may enjoy them.
The price reflects the work and materials involved, as well as the knowledge put
in to them.
Allow another human being to seek his own liberty.
Making a post that informs my peers of a sale is no crime.
Only a select few, people who I have fought with in the past have taken issue
with my posts. Those who wish to damage my success.
Looking back, I would do it again.
Because I know the hunger in my stomach, I know the cold outside.
I know I want to make a better life for myself, that includes unloading the vast
sums of parts I have collected since I was a child.
This is best for me. I have a burden keeping so many parts.
I want to make as many cool things as possible with what I own and sell them off
so I can live my life away from this constant work to maintain my collection.
I have asked my contacts at Lego for their blessings. I have received them.
So I offer what I have to you, my fellow Lego Fans.
Never would I allow people who hardly know me to control my dreams.
I love to build. I will always love Lego.
Fact is I have plenty, and if you so desire, it can be yours.
Now I present my first image to peaceably protest of the cruelty that continues
to thrive through the oppressive nature of my foes.
Build on.
This is called “Struggle to build”.
Eric Sophie 2006
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I say to all that read this, I did not wantingly violate TOS.
|
And yet...
| |
Looking back, I would do it again.
|
...you admit you would do it again, even after it’s been explained to you (more
than once) why posting auction notices in .build.mecha is against the TOS.
| |
Never would I allow people who hardly know me to control my dreams.
|
And yet you agree to be “controlled” by the Lugnet TOS every time you post. And
you have flagrantly ignored that agreement. And you now say you’re happy to do
it again.
Maybe Lugnet just isn’t the place for someone with your dreams?
ROSCO
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
|
A message to the Evil Oppressors:
|
If you really think that reminders to follow lugnet’s TOS and international
copyright law constitues ‘Evil Opression’, then you’re more delusional than even
I thought possible.
| |
Selling the Qwelder-Mech was a hard decision for me.
I want it to have a good home.
I cannot continue to own a war machine.
That is my personal choice.
|
Here’s a little feature of Lego that you may not be aware of - You can break it
up and make something else.
| |
This is not me just trying to turn a buck, this is a
person trying to free himself of many years of collecting.
|
Plenty of people have managed to offload their collections without a)such
blatant violation of the TOC and b)decending into paranoia and lunacy.
| |
Jealousy controls you, hatred motivates you.
The same people, the same hatred.
I created a graphic to honor the image presented to the contestees.
The graphic has been online for weeks now.
No one raised a concern when I posted it originally.
Only now that there is a platform to complain do the malcontents rasie their
heads.
|
No-one else is trying to turn a buck out of it. See the difference?
| |
I have decided to protest your oppression.
I will post an image of my choosing, one day, each day for 30 days.
If you wish to add your voice, click on the image.
The view counts will say all that is needed.
You need not put yourself in the line of fire.
I respect your anonymity.
|
I have decided to protest your protest by posting a sarcastic comment to each
and every one of them.
| |
Sending me your personal emails encouraging me is fine.
However you allow me to suffer in public.
This is understandable considering the negative effects that may come your
way.
|
Public, private. As long as you’re suffering.
| |
I must do everything in my power to reach those who may be interested in
owning one of my creations. I have a total of $1000+ in sales this month
alone. I am proud of that and I am glad to provide the best quality models I
can manage.
|
How? Obviously not by selling mech bays on Auctionbrick. If you’re actually
selling those mecha frames, I hope Marcus is getting his share. If he’s getting
less than 50%, you’re robbing him.
| |
I say to all that read this, I did not wantingly violate TOS.
|
Even if that were true, you’re clearly unrepentant now. I really, really can’t
understand why you haven’t been banned yet.
| |
I say to all that read this, I sell my creations so that others may enjoy
them. The price reflects the work and materials involved, as well as the
knowledge put in to them.
|
That still leaves about $800 unaccounted for.
| |
I know I want to make a better life for myself, that includes unloading the
vast sums of parts I have collected since I was a child.
|
www.bricklink.com
| |
This is best for me. I have a burden keeping so many parts.
I want to make as many cool things as possible with what I own and sell them
off so I can live my life away from this constant work to maintain my
collection.
|
www.ebay.com
| |
I have asked my contacts at Lego for their blessings. I have received them.
So I offer what I have to you, my fellow Lego Fans.
Never would I allow people who hardly know me to control my dreams.
I love to build. I will always love Lego.
Fact is I have plenty, and if you so desire, it can be yours.
|
Not at those prices. Open a bricklink store, and I might browse around. Until
then, good luck. You’re gonna need it.
Allister
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Allister McLaren wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
Selling the Qwelder-Mech was a hard decision for me.
I want it to have a good home.
I cannot continue to own a war machine.
That is my personal choice.
|
Here’s a little feature of Lego that you may not be aware of - You can break
it up and make something else.
|
YOU OWE ME A NEW KEYBOARD, AL!
JOHN
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
This is called “Struggle to build”.
|
Let me guess - You’re represented by the shiny knob. The diver surrounded by the
twisty turntables is the Lugnet community entagled in the knob’s particular
brand of lunacy, and the skeletons are the lurkers waiting to complain about
all the fighting that made them leave lugnet in the first place.
Am I close?
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Allister McLaren wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
This is called “Struggle to build”.
|
Let me guess - You’re represented by the shiny knob. The diver surrounded by
the twisty turntables is the Lugnet community entagled in the knob’s
particular brand of lunacy, and the skeletons are the lurkers waiting to
complain about all the fighting that made them leave lugnet in the first
place.
Am I close?
|
I just love art that’s open to interpretation.
Legoswami
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
|
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
> In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
> > I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
>
> A message to the Evil Oppressors:
Since I was one of the many to reply to the violation of the ToU, I cold take
offence to this remark, but I'm Canadian, so eh...
>
> Your disparagment and oppression only serves to strengthen my resolve.
>
> I have 5000+ views on the Qwelder-Mech Gallery that says it is a good idea to
> let folks know about the sale.
>
> No one speaks for the "mecha community". None of you.
I don't speak for mecha community, I, as well as others, speak for the LUGNET
community. It's the 'community policing' that we have going on here.
>
> Selling the Qwelder-Mech was a hard decision for me.
> I want it to have a good home.
> I cannot continue to own a war machine.
> That is my personal choice.
And you are allowed to post auctions of your 'bot to the Buy/Sell/Trade group.
There is no issue with that.
>
> I believe the people who spend their time oppressing me have no compassion.
> No breadth of scope. No understanding of my dream.
Again, no oppression. People can see your auction in the Buy/Sell/Trade NG.
Don't cry 'foul' becaouse you don't like the rules.
> The proceeds of this model will put food on my table and continue to maintain
> a roof over my head. This is not me just trying to turn a buck, this is a
> person trying to free himself of many years of collecting.
>
> Those who attempt to oppress my way of life have no room in their heart to
> see fellow Lego Fan succeed at a mutual craft.
Again, I'm a pretty big fan. That said, I'm not allowed to break the laws to
make my dreams come true, nor should you.
> Jealousy controls you, hatred motivates you.
> The same people, the same hatred.
> I created a graphic to honor the image presented to the contestees.
> The graphic has been online for weeks now.
> No one raised a concern when I posted it originally.
> Only now that there is a platform to complain do the malcontents rasie their
> heads.
No hatred or jealousy from me. And the only complaint is regarding breaking the
rules. No breaking the rules, no complaint.
> I have decided to protest your oppression.
> I will post an image of my choosing, one day, each day for 30 days.
> If you wish to add your voice, click on the image.
> The view counts will say all that is needed.
> You need not put yourself in the line of fire.
> I respect your anonymity.
I have decided to point out your rule flouting. Again, no oppression at all.
> Sending me your personal emails encouraging me is fine.
> However you allow me to suffer in public.
> This is understandable considering the negative effects that may come your
> way.
>
> I must do everything in my power to reach those who may be interested in
> owning one of my creations. I have a total of $1000+ in sales this month
> alone. I am proud of that and I am glad to provide the best quality models I
> can manage.
And you do a good job at building. Now, put aside the artistic insolence and
realize that you're damaging the very community that has aided you in achieving
your status
> I do not wish to fight. I only wish to create.
> I will continue to create until I have no more Lego.
> The title of this post is acurate, this is an IRON MECHA, and it is FOR SALE.
Again, no issues with the title, or the content, or what you're trying to do.
The issue is with the location of your post--if you posted to Buy/Sell/Trade,
there would have been no issues. However, you violated the ToU of LUGNET, and
now you state that you will willingly do it again.
To sum, you knowingly flout the rules when the rules are inconvenient to you.
> I say to all that read this, I did not wantingly violate TOS.
> I say to all that read this, I sell my creations so that others may enjoy
> them. The price reflects the work and materials involved, as well as the
> knowledge put in to them.
>
> Allow another human being to seek his own liberty.
> Making a post that informs my peers of a sale is no crime.
> Only a select few, people who I have fought with in the past have taken issue
> with my posts. Those who wish to damage my success.
Making a post regarding an auction in a non-auction group is violating the ToU.
And again, I wish you all the success in the world for your endeavours.
However, you keep on stating that I wish damage to your success. Nothing could
be farther from the truth. You keep stating this and I may get the idea that
you don't like me.
> Looking back, I would do it again.
Again, disregarding inconvenient rules.
> Because I know the hunger in my stomach, I know the cold outside.
> I know I want to make a better life for myself, that includes unloading the
> vast sums of parts I have collected since I was a child.
>
> This is best for me. I have a burden keeping so many parts.
> I want to make as many cool things as possible with what I own and sell them
> off so I can live my life away from this constant work to maintain my
> collection.
>
> I have asked my contacts at Lego for their blessings. I have received them.
> So I offer what I have to you, my fellow Lego Fans.
Offer them in B/S/T only.
>
> Never would I allow people who hardly know me to control my dreams.
Not controlling your dreams--you can build your dreams all you want. If you
want to sell your dreams and advertise that sale on LUGNET, you have at your
disposal the B/S/T newsgroup. Avail yourself of that particular group and there
will be no issue.
> I love to build. I will always love Lego.
> Fact is I have plenty, and if you so desire, it can be yours.
Again, if selling your dreams is your desire, then avail yourself of the .B/S/T
NG
> Now I present my first image to peaceably protest of the cruelty that
> continues to thrive through the oppressive nature of my foes.
Stop with the 'artist being oppressed' talk--there is no oppression here. You
have all the freedom you want to post auctions to the B/S/T group. No one is
saying you can't.
> Build on.
>
> This is called "Struggle to build".
>
> <http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?i=44833
> <http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Legomaster/Things/struggle-to-build.jpg
> Click to Support - allow a fellow Lego Builder to seek his own liberty>>¬
>
> Eric Sophie 2006
I think maybe you should put more effort into an artistic representation of
'Struggle to understand the LUGNET ToU'
;)
Dave K
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In lugnet.build.mecha, David Koudys wrote:
> And you are allowed to post auctions of your 'bot to the Buy/Sell/Trade group.
> There is no issue with that.
Just to be a complete compartmentalized dork about this, actually if it's an
auction it should not be posted to market.bst but to market.auction, since bst
specifically excludes auctions:
http://news.lugnet.com/market/buy-sell-trade/?n=1
"Community trading post, items wanted, items for straight sale (no
auctions), experiences, market analysis, etc."
The only correct place for auctions is lugnet.market.auction.
Kevin Wilson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Craftsman Lego Kits & Custom models: http://www.lionsgatemodels.com
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
BrickLink Lego parts store: http://www.bricklink.com/store.asp?p=Kevinw1
The Guild of Bricksmiths(TM): http://www.bricksmiths.com
Brickshelf Gallery: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?m=kevinw1
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In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I have 5000+ views on the Qwelder-Mech Gallery that says it is a good idea to
let folks know about the sale.
|
A few things to note here. 5000 views does NOT mean 5000 people from
build.mecha looked at it. Nor does it mean 5000 people want to hear about a
sale announcement in build.mecha when most of them probably don’t even read the
group. Lastly, 5000 views doesn’t even mean 5000 people actually *liked* it.
Most of the people probably saw it on the recent page on Brickshelf. Some
undoubtedly clicked on it to find they loved it, just as some clicked on it to
find that they *didn’t* like it. Please stop equating gallery views to some
kind of measurable “They Like It” value. High view numbers can just as easily
be caused by “Hey, this is bad, you have to check it out!” as “hey, this is
awesome, check it out!”
| |
No one speaks for the “mecha community”. None of you.
|
Neither do you, despite your attitude of such. And in truth, when many people
post saying you are doing something wrong and very few (if any) pipe up to
defend you, it probably does mean they are speaking for the community at that
specific time.
| |
Selling the Qwelder-Mech was a hard decision for me.
I want it to have a good home.
I cannot continue to own a war machine.
That is my personal choice.
|
Well and good, but don’t post the sale announcement to build.mecha. It is a ToS
violation. Keep it to the appropriate group.
| |
I believe the people who spend their time oppressing me have no compassion.
No breadth of scope. No understanding of my dream.
|
Having dreams aren’t blanket immunity from the consequences of violating the
ToS, which you agreed to abide by when you signed up to post. Neither is “the
community wants to see my sale announcement despite the ToS violation!”
| |
The proceeds of this model will put food on my table and continue to maintain
a roof over my head. This is not me just trying to turn a buck, this is a
person trying to free himself of many years of collecting.
|
See above about keeping sale announcements to appropriate groups.
| |
Those who attempt to oppress my way of life have no room in their heart to
see fellow Lego Fan succeed at a mutual craft.
|
So we’re “oppressing your way of life” by pointing out you violated the rules of
the board here? That is like saying we should not prosecute thieves who rob
banks and homes because imprisoning them “oppresses their way of life.” Not a
good idea, now is it?
| |
Jealousy controls you, hatred motivates you.
The same people, the same hatred.
|
Jealousy and hatred for you do not motivate me. Hatred of your continued
rulebreaking and whining when you get called on it *does* motivate me. You’re
older than I am; stop acting like you’re twenty years my junior.
| |
I created a graphic to honor the image presented to the contestees.
The graphic has been online for weeks now.
No one raised a concern when I posted it originally.
Only now that there is a platform to complain do the malcontents rasie their
heads.
|
You weren’t violating ToS then, nor were you trying to make a profit on someone
else’s initial concept design. Did you get approval to sell a product based on
that drawing? If not, you may want to do so, or you could be sued and then lose
all that money and then some. And note here that this statement is meant to
protect *you,* so don’t start shouting “oppression!” when you read it.
| |
I have decided to protest your oppression.
I will post an image of my choosing, one day, each day for 30 days.
|
If they are not of mecha, they may very well be a violation of the ToS for this
board. Are you willing to accept the consequences of your “protest”?
| |
If you wish to add your voice, click on the image.
The view counts will say all that is needed.
You need not put yourself in the line of fire.
I respect your anonymity.
|
As I stated above, view counts pretty much mean nothing. People browse
Brickshelf independently of Lugnet, so the sample will be contaminated and
meaningless.
| |
I must do everything in my power to reach those who may be interested in
owning one of my creations. I have a total of $1000+ in sales this month
alone. I am proud of that and I am glad to provide the best quality models I
can manage.
|
That still doesn’t give you the right to break the rules and post such messages
in groups that disallow MOC sale notifications.
| |
I do not wish to fight. I only wish to create.
I will continue to create until I have no more Lego.
The title of this post is acurate, this is an IRON MECHA, and it is FOR SALE.
|
We don’t have issue with the “accuracy” of your post title. We have issue that
you crossposted it improperly, even after warnings on previous occasions.
| |
I say to all that read this, I did not wantingly violate TOS.
I say to all that read this, I sell my creations so that others may enjoy
them. The price reflects the work and materials involved, as well as the
knowledge put in to them.
|
Be that as it may, you still did violate ToS, in the exact same way as you have
in the past. After repeated warnings of such, I can only think you’re
intentionally ignoring the warnings and rules, or you’re too wrapped up in
yourself to realize you could do anything wrong.
The major complaints are NOT, I repeat *NOT* about you wishing to sell a
creation. The complaints are that you have violated the ToS of Lugnet and
build.mecha by crossposting the sale announcement to build.mecha. The
announcement in market.b-s-t is perfectly fine. In addition, there is concern
that you did not get approval from the original creator of the design you based
your MOC on. If you did not, you could easily be sued by the copyright holder,
as I stated above.
| |
Allow another human being to seek his own liberty.
Making a post that informs my peers of a sale is no crime.
Only a select few, people who I have fought with in the past have taken issue
with my posts. Those who wish to damage my success.
|
Again, you’re violating the *rules.* You agreed to abide by them when you
signed up. Violating the rules is grounds for having posting priviledges
revoked on a temporary or permanent basis. If you are fine with that, go right
ahead and violate the rules and live with the consequences. This is not an
issue of “liberty” or “freedom.”
| |
Looking back, I would do it again.
|
This attitude makes you an unrepentent rulebreaker and deserving of the
consequences passed onto you by the Lugnet admins.
| |
Because I know the hunger in my stomach, I know the cold outside.
I know I want to make a better life for myself, that includes unloading the
vast sums of parts I have collected since I was a child.
This is best for me. I have a burden keeping so many parts.
I want to make as many cool things as possible with what I own and sell them
off so I can live my life away from this constant work to maintain my
collection.
|
And you’re more than welcome to, on any site that allows sales. However, you
also need to keep announcements to the appropriate groups.
| |
I have asked my contacts at Lego for their blessings. I have received them.
So I offer what I have to you, my fellow Lego Fans.
|
You asked them about this specific model, or in general? If you asked about
this specific model, they have no say since they do not hold the copyright on
the design used in the Iron Mecha Challenge.
| |
Never would I allow people who hardly know me to control my dreams.
|
Nor would I. But dreams are just that: dreams. Don’t use them to excuse your
ToS violations.
| |
I love to build. I will always love Lego.
Fact is I have plenty, and if you so desire, it can be yours.
|
And if I wanted it, I’d be happy to buy it. But even if I wanted it, I’d still
be here telling you to keep sale announcements to market.buy-sell-trade.
| |
Now I present my first image to peaceably protest of the cruelty that
continues to thrive through the oppressive nature of my foes.
Build on.
This is called “Struggle to build”.
|
(Links Deleted)
| |
Click to Support - allow a fellow Lego Builder to seek his own liberty>>
Eric Sophie 2006
|
Your “liberty” is more akin to anarchy, because you seem to think the rules
shouldn’t apply to you. Please do not repeatedly violate ToS in this way.
Doing so will only strengthen the opinion held by many that you care little
about anything but yourself and the attention, be it positive or negative, that
you recieve. If you’re unsure of the ToS, there’s a link at the bottom of every
page on Lugnet.
Jeff
(Setting followups to admin.general because that is the proper place to discuss
the ToS and violations of such.)
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| |
|
I really didn’t want to become part of this post because I felt so puzzled by
what I was reading. I have always held Lugnet with high regard, due to the
civillized nature of the people here, unlike most public forums which are not
so. I don’t post very often but I like coming here to see whats happening in the
wider LEGO community.
I strongly admire Eric Sophie for his work, his building skills and his general
attitude on LUGNET, as well as the inspiration he has provided me with over the
few years I have been sharing my creations here. This is also true for many
people who frequent DOTMecha.
I cannot understand why this unconstructive debate about the TOS has started,
and more so, why it has been allowed to continue publicly?!?! If there has been
a TOS violation it should be dealt with privately between the user and admin
staff. Personally I think it does no harm, if one of the worlds leading LEGO
builders is selling something and wants to let the mainstay of the Mecha
building communtiy know about it.
I think everyone needs to take a deep breath, get the BRICK(s) out, and get
building to put something constructive back onto the page!
Peace
Jas
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In lugnet.build.mecha, Jas Nagra wrote:
| |
I really didn’t want to become part of this post because I felt so puzzled
by what I was reading. I have always held Lugnet with high regard, due to the
civillized nature of the people here, unlike most public forums which are not
so. I don’t post very often but I like coming here to see whats happening in
the wider LEGO community.
I strongly admire Eric Sophie for his work, his building skills and his
general attitude on LUGNET, as well as the inspiration he has provided me
with over the few years I have been sharing my creations here. This is also
true for many people who frequent DOTMecha.
I cannot understand why this unconstructive debate about the TOS has started,
and more so, why it has been allowed to continue publicly?!?! If there has
been a TOS violation it should be dealt with privately between the user and
admin staff. Personally I think it does no harm, if one of the worlds leading
LEGO builders is selling something and wants to let the mainstay of the Mecha
building communtiy know about it.
|
I agree with everything you’ve said - up until this point. True, having his
for-sale post in .mecha doesn’t do any harm, but rules are rules. Just because
he happens to be “one of the world’s leading LEGO builders” (not everybody will
agree on that) does NOT mean he is above and beyond the rules. In fact, as a
prominent member of the mecha community, he should act accordingly and in-line
as a role model to newer/younger builders.
-Bryan
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In lugnet.build.mecha, Jas Nagra wrote:
| |
I cannot understand why this unconstructive debate about the TOS has started,
and more so, why it has been allowed to continue publicly?!?! If there has
been a TOS violation it should be dealt with privately between the user and
admin staff. Personally I think it does no harm, if one of the worlds leading
LEGO builders is selling something and wants to let the mainstay of the Mecha
building communtiy know about it.
|
The rules are the rules, whether you think the breaking of one is harmful or
not. The rule against marketplace type posts in theme groups was a direct
result of the high number of such posts (and other off-topic messages, such as
political debates) on rec.toys.lego in the days before Lugnet was created. It
was instituted with the approval of the vast majority of the regular posters at
the time. Getting rid of the rule would open the floodgate to allow anything
any seller deemed “related” to a single group to be crossposted to dozens of
groups or more.
Jeff
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
Soren
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Soren Roberts wrote:
> <<http://www.maj.com/gallery/Lazarus/misc/Macros/sand.jpg>>
What an incredibly crass blast of bad taste, even more so than anywhere else in
this thread. I'm really disappointed to see that posted here under your name,
Soren.
If this is emblematic of where LUGNET is heading, I want no part of it.
LFB
(followups trimmed)
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| |
|
In lugnet.build.mecha, Lindsay Frederick Braun wrote:
> In lugnet.build.mecha, Soren Roberts wrote:
> What an incredibly crass blast of bad taste, even more so than anywhere else in
> this thread. I'm really disappointed to see that posted here under your name,
> Soren.
>
> If this is emblematic of where LUGNET is heading, I want no part of it.
Often in the past we have lamented the sort of "fringe group" stigma attached to
LEGO as an adult hobby. An air of "geekiness" or "nerdiness" seemed to linger,
no matter how many dazzling sculptures or mosaics or train layouts are
displayed. We still seem to wrestle with the notion that LEGO is a "kid's toy,"
and I think many of us have be conscious of sideways glances as we've perused
the new items on the shelf.
I'm not a big LEGO buyer anymore, but people who know me know that I'm no
stranger to that same toy aisle, and I likewise get a little bit of that "you
like to play with what?" vibe.
Still, we persevere. Our community includes numerous tightly-knit groups and is
always eager to rally around someone in need. We unanimously condemned the
recent largescale theft and reselling of expensive LEGO sets from Target etc.,
and with one voice we have expressed support and cameraderie when members of
LUGNET (or their loved ones) have passed on.
Our political, social, and spiritual views run the whole spectrum, yet somehow
even those of us who disagree most strongly can find common ground in the
exchange of ideas and the sharing of MOCs. We are not without flaws, but we
know that we can be better than the stereotype.
The stereotype envisions the AFOL as an immature loner unable to engage in
healthy social interaction. Perhaps he lives in his parents basement, and
perhaps he's even held a woman's hand other than his mother's. The stereotype
meshes neatly with the Comic Book guy from The Simpsons, a rude and sarcastic
misfit, misanthropic and misogynistic with little to recommend him outside of
his collection.
I am pleased to know that the stereotype is very often wildly incorrect.
And I am disappointed to see the stereotype is sometimes embodied so negatively
and so totally that long-standing members of LUGNET look back fondly to the time
when we were a much smaller group but had a much bigger sense of community.
Those days were good. Are those days gone?
Some days it's difficult to conclude otherwise.
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| |
And I am disappointed to see the stereotype is sometimes embodied so
negatively and so totally that long-standing members of LUGNET look back
fondly to the time when we were a much smaller group but had a much bigger
sense of community.
Those days were good. Are those days gone?
Some days it’s difficult to conclude otherwise.
|
I see this sort of comment with fair regularity and it makes me sad. Not because
I wish for these supposed “good days” but because it means people have already
reached the stage where they are forgetting/rewriting the past.
I’ve been around Lugnet since almost the beginning (lurking for at least the
first couple of years) and remember RTL from as far back as 1998. I think there
was a lot more sharing of ideas and conversation between themes etc. in the
early days. But that was mainly because there were a lot fewer people.
What I do NOT remember is an absence of fights. As far back as I can remember
there have been flamewars, public disagreements, complaints, time outs and other
forms of ‘nastiness’. They tended to die off a bit quicker (maybe) but that was
mainly because there were less interests at stake (ie. people who would have a
problem with one side or the other).
Here are some old examples I just dug up. They aren’t all neccessarily flamewars
but they certainly point towards them. The first post in lugnet.general is made
on the 28th September 1998.
“I find it a little sad that one HAS to
clarify obvious witticisms in order to avoid a flame war! Ho Hum...“ - Jan 1999
Swearing AND bad ldraw part design -
Apr 1999
Naughty threading - Nov 1999
Lots of relevance to the current
situation (and even longer) - Feb 2000
So it looks to me like the flamewars started pretty darn soon after Lugnet did.
I can understand people not liking flamewars. Personally I just ignore them if I
feel I should or participate in them if I feel I should but everyone is entitled
to their own opinion on things. I just can’t understand why people claim that
the “good ‘ol days” didn’t have them.
Something to think about.
Tim
PS. Posted to .people since that seems to be the best place for it.
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In lugnet.people, Timothy Gould wrote:
| |
| |
And I am disappointed to see the stereotype is sometimes embodied so
negatively and so totally that long-standing members of LUGNET look back
fondly to the time when we were a much smaller group but had a much bigger
sense of community.
Those days were good. Are those days gone?
Some days it’s difficult to conclude otherwise.
|
I see this sort of comment with fair regularity and it makes me sad. Not
because I wish for these supposed “good days” but because it means people
have already reached the stage where they are forgetting/rewriting the past.
I’ve been around Lugnet since almost the beginning (lurking for at least the
first couple of years) and remember RTL from as far back as 1998. I think
there was a lot more sharing of ideas and conversation between themes etc. in
the early days. But that was mainly because there were a lot fewer people.
What I do NOT remember is an absence of fights. As far back as I can remember
there have been flamewars, public disagreements, complaints, time outs and
other forms of ‘nastiness’. They tended to die off a bit quicker (maybe) but
that was mainly because there were less interests at stake (ie. people who
would have a problem with one side or the other).
Here are some old examples I just dug up. They aren’t all neccessarily
flamewars but they certainly point towards them. The first post in
lugnet.general is made on the 28th September 1998.
“I find it a little sad that one HAS
to clarify obvious witticisms in order to avoid a flame war! Ho Hum...“ -
Jan 1999
Swearing AND bad ldraw part design -
Apr 1999
Naughty threading - Nov 1999
Lots of relevance to the
current situation (and even longer) - Feb 2000
So it looks to me like the flamewars started pretty darn soon after Lugnet
did.
I can understand people not liking flamewars. Personally I just ignore them
if I feel I should or participate in them if I feel I should but everyone is
entitled to their own opinion on things. I just can’t understand why people
claim that the “good ‘ol days” didn’t have them.
Something to think about.
|
Well, all right.
I don’t really care about flame-wars because they’re self-evidently juvenile and
they tend to involve the same flamers over and over again. I myself have
lamented what I will refer to as Rhinoceros Dominance (search for “middens” if
you want to see what I’m talking about), but my recollection is that most of the
protracted shouting matches went on in the “hidden” forums rather than playing
out on the front page. Also, though LUGNET was smaller back then, the
signal:noise ratio was much higher, so a spat between to mechophiles could go
unnoticed in a flood of other, more productive posts. Often LUGNET goes a half
an hour or more without a new message being posted, so when someone posts a
“you’re a stinker” diatribe, it tends to linger.
Additionally, those halcyon days didn’t support FTX, so it was less likely that
someone would hotlink a an image broadcasting his colorful grasp of anatomy.
I’m not blindly nostalgic. I recall the early days, warts and all. But, in
terms of proportion, LUGNET has become wartier and wartier as time has gone on,
and I’m not sure that it’s a welcome trend.
| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
| |
Well, all right.
I don’t really care about flame-wars because they’re self-evidently juvenile
and they tend to involve the same flamers over and over again. I myself have
lamented what I will refer to as Rhinoceros Dominance (search for “middens”
if you want to see what I’m talking about), but my recollection is that most
of the protracted shouting matches went on in the “hidden” forums rather than
playing out on the front page. Also, though LUGNET was smaller back then,
the signal:noise ratio was much higher, so a spat between to mechophiles
could go unnoticed in a flood of other, more productive posts. Often LUGNET
goes a half an hour or more without a new message being posted, so when
someone posts a “you’re a stinker” diatribe, it tends to linger.
|
Hi Dave,
You make a good point about the signal:noise ratio 1. With that I agree. I’m
not sure that the dramas were so much in hidden forums as there was enough
masking but either way I agree with your point.
I would be worried if I saw ‘proper’ posts being drowned out at the moment but
fortunately I don’t. For example I posted an MOC two days ago which got lots of
responses so I’m not too concerned ;)
| |
Additionally, those halcyon days didn’t support FTX, so it was less likely
that someone would hotlink a an image broadcasting his colorful grasp of
anatomy.
|
We did have a few people who were a lot more kid-unfriendly (if you’re into that
sort of thing). Had someone posted hardcore porn I would share that concern but
that hasn’t happened yet and I doubt it ever will.
| |
I’m not blindly nostalgic. I recall the early days, warts and all. But, in
terms of proportion, LUGNET has become wartier and wartier as time has gone
on, and I’m not sure that it’s a welcome trend.
|
I think the analogy is more that the face has shrunk so the warts are denser ;)
I do trust that you’re not being blindly nostalgic. Partially because I’ve seen
your posts over a long period of time and have no great reason to suspect you of
being self-blinding and partially because you took the time to respond in a
reasonable and thought out manner. I just find it a bit untruthful when I see
posts worded like yours that seem to imply that old lugnet was somehow less
unfriendly.
Please don’t take my earlier post (or this one) as a criticism or an attack. It
was more me just trying to add some different perspective to the ‘new vs. old’
chestnut.
Tim
1 There’s some interesting observations that can be made on the signal:noise
ratio of the various posters in the latest drama
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In lugnet.people, Timothy Gould wrote:
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We did have a few people who were a lot more kid-unfriendly (if you’re into
that sort of thing). Had someone posted hardcore porn I would share that
concern but that hasn’t happened yet and I doubt it ever will.
|
Well I think this comes
pretty close, but I suppose that’s subjective.
ROSCO
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In lugnet.people, Dave Schuler wrote:
| |
Well, all right.
I don’t really care about flame-wars because they’re self-evidently juvenile
and they tend to involve the same flamers over and over again. I myself have
lamented what I will refer to as Rhinoceros Dominance (search for “middens”
if you want to see what I’m talking about), but my recollection is that most
of the protracted shouting matches went on in the “hidden” forums rather than
playing out on the front page. Also, though LUGNET was smaller back then,
the signal:noise ratio was much higher, so a spat between to mechophiles
could go unnoticed in a flood of other, more productive posts. Often LUGNET
goes a half an hour or more without a new message being posted, so when
someone posts a “you’re a stinker” diatribe, it tends to linger.
Additionally, those halcyon days didn’t support FTX, so it was less likely
that someone would hotlink a an image broadcasting his colorful grasp of
anatomy.
I’m not blindly nostalgic. I recall the early days, warts and all. But, in
terms of proportion, LUGNET has become wartier and wartier as time has gone
on, and I’m not sure that it’s a welcome trend.
|
Why is it always implied that newer members are largely to blame for LUGNET’s
decline? It seems to me that more often than not, newer members are even more
uncomfortable here than you vetrans. LUGNET more than any other LEGO fan site,
seems to be driven by elitism. Not unlike a fanclub, senior members oftem place
themselves above and beyond the newbies. In turn, membership has dropped
significantly in the past few years. Look how few members LUGNET has lured into
the fold over the past four months.
From my limited experience here, I find that this place is simply too
inhosbitable to all but the most fanatical of fans. This thread is a shining
example of the elitism and hostility that is all too frequent in this fandom.
Still, vetran users would prefer to point the blame elsewhere, rather than take
it upon themselves to act more cordial towards their fellow fans. Heck, just
typing this reply is putting me on edge.
At the end of the day, LUGNET has simply become less relevant to the AFOL
community. Casual fans seem to have moved on to other forums, specializing in
certain niches (classic-castle, FBTB etc.), rather than listening to the long
winded diatribes of the LUGNET hardcore. Now, it seems that this is simply a
site to vent. When a MOC is profiled, a few of you vetrans may indulge
yourselves by typing a short review, but such a need is easily filled by other
sites (MOCpages for example). Less accomplished builders quickly find out that
nobody here even cares about their mediocre MOCing. Most of these types won’t
stick around for long. So, is it any surprise that there isn’t alot of traffic
around here?
Later.
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On Fri, 31 Mar 2006, Joel Midgley wrote:
> In lugnet.people, Dave Schuler wrote:
> >
> > Well, all right.
> >
> > I don't really care about flame-wars because they're self-evidently juvenile
> > and they tend to involve the same flamers over and over again. I myself have
> > lamented what I will refer to as Rhinoceros Dominance (search for "middens"
> > if you want to see what I'm talking about), but my recollection is that most
> > of the protracted shouting matches went on in the "hidden" forums rather than
> > playing out on the front page. Also, though LUGNET was smaller back then,
> > the signal:noise ratio was much higher, so a spat between to mechophiles
> > could go unnoticed in a flood of other, more productive posts. Often LUGNET
> > goes a half an hour or more without a new message being posted, so when
> > someone posts a "you're a stinker" diatribe, it tends to linger.
> >
> > Additionally, those halcyon days didn't support FTX, so it was less likely
> > that someone would hotlink a an image broadcasting his colorful grasp of
> > anatomy.
> >
> > I'm not blindly nostalgic. I recall the early days, warts and all. But, in
> > terms of proportion, LUGNET has become wartier and wartier as time has gone
> > on, and I'm not sure that it's a welcome trend.
>
> Why is it always implied that newer members are largely to blame for LUGNET's
> decline?
I see no such implication in anything Dave wrote here.
> LUGNET more than any other LEGO fan site, seems to be driven by elitism.
Huh? Not that I have anything against elitism, but LUGNET doesn't seem to
even have any mechanisms for an elite, aside from background stuff
(whether or not a set is put in the Guide, what color background all posts
have in the Web interface, etc.). Arguably, the list of member comments
on sets in the Guide is in order of membership[1], but there's nothing
else that communicates "This guy's comment is important, but you can
ignore these other guys." My newsreader just gives me a list of recent
posts in any newsgroup, not any indication that the elect have dictated
that a few posts must be read, but the rest are by unworthy peasants.
There is a (blessed) absence of continuously updated information with each
post telling me how long the poster has been around and how many posts he
has made.
> From my limited experience here, I find that this place is simply too
> inhosbitable to all but the most fanatical of fans.
Okay. I have no idea how LUGNET is inhospitable to casual fans[2]. I
need to know how if I am to make it less so.
--
TWS Garrison
http://www.morfydd.net/twsg/
Remove capital letters in address for direct reply.
[1] And if there is a LUGNET elite, is Laura Gjovaag (#80) in it but Kelly
McKiernan (#2626) not?
[2] I've heard that it's inhospitable to the technically inept but a) I
don't care and b) I know more than enough technically inept fanatical Lego
fans to know that that's not the issue here.
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In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Dave Schuler wrote:
> The stereotype envisions the AFOL as an immature loner unable to engage in
> healthy social interaction. Perhaps he lives in his parents basement, and
> perhaps he's even held a woman's hand other than his mother's. The stereotype
> meshes neatly with the Comic Book guy from The Simpsons, a rude and sarcastic
> misfit, misanthropic and misogynistic with little to recommend him outside of
> his collection.
I wasn't really aware this stereotype existed until now.
For the record, I'm independent, reasonably polite, and perfectly capable of
healthy social interaction - I just don't see Eric as a fit person to waste it
on. And yes, I have done considerably more than hold hands with women other than
my mother. Misanthropic I'll have to concede.
To be fair, you may not have been referring to me. Were you? I can think of one
person in this thread who fits all of those descriptions to a T.
> And I am disappointed to see the stereotype is sometimes embodied so negatively
> and so totally
Well, I love a good passive-aggressive insult as much as anybody, especially
inaccurate ones, but I think you're missing the larger error on both sides.
In retrospect I concur that I shouldn't have posted that image - nothing gets
people riled up like sex, especially questionably sexual humor. And Lugnet being
so quiet these days, I could hardly count on it being missed. It's been removed.
Everyone who responded, you might have been better served to send a quiet
private email indicating your offense and requesting that I take down the image.
I was happy to do so, as you can see.
Instead, you chose to respond publically, which makes us all equally guilty of
clogging up the server with noise posts.
Soren
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|
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Dave Schuler wrote:
> I am pleased to know that the stereotype is very often wildly incorrect.
>
> And I am disappointed to see the stereotype is sometimes embodied so negatively
> and so totally that long-standing members of LUGNET look back fondly to the time
> when we were a much smaller group but had a much bigger sense of community.
>
> Those days were good. Are those days gone?
>
>
>
> Some days it's difficult to conclude otherwise.
It seems so.
I just came back (again) after a year of being on leave, Just clicked on top of
the highlight list,
BAAAAMM!
Guys, what did you do to this place? what really is changed?..
And Eric, I remeber you from the old days of Lugnet, as one of the best
creators, and one of the creators that I most admire.
Please stop it. Your rants and such is perfect reputation killers.
I didn't wanted to step in but this sentences below makes me do it:
"long-standing members of LUGNET look back fondly to the time when we were a
much smaller group but had a much bigger sense of community"
Selçuk (#4)
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In lugnet.build.mecha, Soren Roberts wrote
:
(snip)
I have to agree with L.F. Braun.
Crass, rude, and NOT kid-friendly.
Please consider not posting items that would be offensive to children. Would
your sister/mom/grandmother/aunt /wife/girlfriend/significant other approve of
that graphic and comment?
Paul Sinasohn
speaking only for myself.
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In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Paul Sinasohn wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Soren Roberts wrote
:
(snip)
I have to agree with L.F. Braun.
Crass, rude, and NOT kid-friendly.
Please consider not posting items that would be offensive to children. Would
your sister/mom/grandmother/aunt /wife/girlfriend/significant other approve
of that graphic and comment?
Paul Sinasohn
speaking only for myself.
|
No Paul, you are not speaking only for yourself. It’s a safe bet that
you are speaking for virtually all women. I’d say much of the righteous
indignation in this thread is misplaced.
And I also agree with LFB, Lugnet sure ain’t what it used to be. It’s a shame.
Maggie C.
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In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Paul Sinasohn wrote:
| |
I have to agree with L.F. Braun.
Crass, rude, and NOT kid-friendly.
|
If children young enough to be harmed by that image actually read lugnet in
meaningful numbers I will eat a hat. With your choice of garnishes.
| |
Please consider not posting items that would be offensive to children. Would
your sister/mom/grandmother/aunt /wife/girlfriend/significant other approve
of that graphic and comment?
|
Well, I haven’t got a sister, I’m not married, the girlfriend list would be
mostly on the side of finding it quite funny, I’m not currently on speaking
terms with my mother, and my grandmother would go into shock - but she also goes
into shock at the idea of gay men marrying, so I consider her to be a less than
reliable moral indicator.
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Paul Sinasohn
speaking only for myself.
|
I appreciate your concern, but I find it interesting that you would complain
about a mildly sarcastic reference to a body part which I find beautiful and
natural, and not to Sophie’s repeated and laughable threats of physical violence
in this same thread. I consider those far more harmful to children.
I agree that posting the image was an act of poor judgment, but for entirely
different reasons.
Soren
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Soren Roberts wrote:
| |
I appreciate your concern, but I find it interesting that you would complain
about a mildly sarcastic reference to a body part which I find beautiful and
natural, and not to Sophie’s repeated and laughable threats of physical
violence in this same thread. I consider those far more harmful to children.
|
I’ll admit that I haven’t read the entire thread, so I haven’t seen those
threats. When I get a chance, I’ll find them and respond appropriately.
Paul Sinasohn
speaking for myself
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Soren Roberts wrote:
| |
In lugnet.market.buy-sell-trade, Paul Sinasohn wrote:
| |
I have to agree with L.F. Braun.
Crass, rude, and NOT kid-friendly.
|
If children young enough to be harmed by that image actually read lugnet in
meaningful numbers I will eat a hat. With your choice of garnishes.
|
Soren, one is a meaningful number where that is concerned. But the bad-taste
quotient in general was really my particular lament--not having children or
being an actual small child, I’ll leave that outrage to those who may.
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Paul Sinasohn
speaking only for myself.
|
I appreciate your concern, but I find it interesting that you would complain
about a mildly sarcastic reference to a body part which I find beautiful and
natural, and not to Sophie’s repeated and laughable threats of physical
violence in this same thread. I consider those far more harmful to children.
|
I think you’re missing something. The point is that those other threats being
broached are not only being addressed with due unction, but they’re also not
especially surprising. The crux of my comment was that I expect better from
you, from a knowledge of your posting history. Just because someone’s out there
making threats and acting badly does not mean that it’s suddenly OK to be just a
little less crass.
While I accept, sadly, that some denizens of these waters seem to be unable to
control themselves, it really bothers me much, much more when someone I have a
very positive impression of stoops to such a level. Otherwise, what would be
the point of fussing?
best
LFB
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Lindsay Frederick Braun wrote:
***snip
| |
one is a meaningful number...
|
***snip
***snip
| |
addressed with due unction, but they’re...
|
***snip
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The crux of my comment...
|
Not to make sport of all this, Lindsay, but I can’t help noticing a vaguely
eccliesiastical flair to this post. Are you undergoing a rebirth of some kind?
Dave!
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In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
|
A message to the Evil Oppressors:
Looking back, I would do it again.
This is called “Struggle to build”.
Click to Support - allow a fellow Lego Builder to seek his own liberty>>
|
SNIP
Eric,
What is going on, man?
People have brought up a lot of legitimate points and you haven’t really given a
clear explanation or rebuttal to the points addressed...
As an artist myself, I am learning a lot about publicity and reputation in
college, and what you’re doing really isn’t helping to foster a good image - in
fact, its contributing to quite the opposite. I hate to sound obvious, but when
you’re posting, always keep in mind that potential clients and customers could
be reading your posts, and that your reputation (whether online or offline) is
priceless.
You may have lost business because of this.
Every action has a real consequence, and you need to realize that if you wish to
continue to be successful as a artist, you need to step back and really
condsider what your goals are. What do you want to be known for?
Do you want to be known for great models and a friendly demeanor? Hopefully.
Do you want to be known as someone who goes into crazy rants and gives mixed,
delusional messages? That kind of stuff is just unproductive. Period.
Hopefully you wish to be known as a talented and reliable, cool person. As an
artist, you’ve definitely got talent (believe me, I know talent when I see it)
but you need to be more open to others opinions and stop with the “they’re out
to get me” and the “evil oppressors are out to destroy my cause” nonsense. Time
spent debating is time you could be using to build your next creation or do some
research on a new concep t.
Its all about and respect for others and the *rules that govern the community*.
That is what others are asking for. Follow those and you’ll be in a far better
position.
I’m not the type of guy who likes to lecture people at all...in fact, I get
lectured to a lot, but I thought I’d chime in on this because I hate to see
someone with potential bring himself down.
1. Matt Hein
http://www.lugnet.com/people/members/~1112/
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In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I have 5000+ views on the Qwelder-Mech Gallery that says it is a good idea to
let folks know about the sale.
|
Eric, you do realise “recent” folders on BS get several hundred views per day
without even trying, don’t you?
ROSCO
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In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
|
| |
See the the auction page here
Thank you.
Eric Sophie
|
Hi Eric,
I’ve seen your posts on some other lugs,
Are you selling the instructions as well?
http://www.jlug.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=14540#14540
Chris
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In lugnet.build.mecha, Eric Sophie wrote:
| |
I put the Qwelder-Mech up for sale on Auctionbrick.com:
|
I have not seen anyone crosspost to admin.general requesting action on Eric’s
repeated ToS violations, so I am formally doing so. I think at least a
temporary ban on posting is an apropriate response to his latest violation.
Please take action on this so people don’t think they can violate the ToS and
not suffer the consequences.
Thank You,
Jeff Stembel
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I invite all interested parties to participate in a poll on JLUG concerning this
thread:
http://www.jlug.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1231
WARNING: there is PROFANITY and low-brow humor involved.
-Keith
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In full, the
articles of the Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic
Works
Read it. Don’t skip any. Ask someone to explain the parts you don’t understand.
Soren
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