Subject:
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Re: Why be 'good' without god (was Re: Worthlessness)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 17 Sep 2004 16:02:24 GMT
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Viewed:
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1883 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Parsons wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Pamela Hale wrote:
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote:
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Not at all the same. I still don’t have a satisfactory answer from
atheists to the question “why do good?” (from a personal standpoint
rather than some overall societal efficiency explanation)
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Here’s an answer for you: I “do good,” as you put it, because I have spent
time thinking about life, the universe, and my role in it and have decided
based on my own observations that mean people suck. I don’t believe in any
god, but I do believe in personal responsibility. I do not want to be the
kind of person I dislike, and it is my choice as to what kind of person I
can be.
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Damn straight. I like this. It more or less reflects me too. Based on my
own meagre experience of life, I have found that there are some people I like
and others I do not, some actions I like and others I do not, and some things
I like to be and others I do not. I have a pretty clear picture of who I
have chosen to be, and try surprisingly hard to be that person.
I would note that to me the things I do are not ‘good’ things, although the
general consensus is that most of the stuff I do falls under that heading.
For me, its not ‘good’ things, but things ‘I have found I enjoy doing’. A
small proportion of the stuff I do does not fall under the generally
established consensus as to ‘good’, and I am fine with that.
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So, are you saying that you do “good” because it makes you feeel good?
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I wonder what is meant by “good” here in the first place. What are we
talking about? Giving to charity? Volunteering at your local homeless
shelter or library? Probably we all have different ideas of what is meant
by “doing good.”
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Based on some of our discussions here there are some wildly different
conceptions of what constitutes doing good.
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Yes, it would be helpful to get a working definition of what “good” is so that
we can all be on the same page. For me, doing “good” is doing what I believe
God wants me to do, which is to love Him-- expressed by me to Him by loving my
neighbor. I find it interesting to note that I sometimes do good but do not
enjoy it necessarily (or that I’d prefer doing something else for me). If I
were a selfish person like I am and didn’t believe in God, I’d probably never
do good things when I didn’t feeel like it.
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Interestingly, in my experience, where there are the widest and most
unhelpful distinctions between different people’s perceptions of what’s good
and what’s not, it almost always involves unshakeable (often but not always
religious) faith on someone’s part.
Its one of the reasons I’m not fond of ‘good’ per se, or religion for that
matter.
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Ah, well what is good and doing good are two separate issues, no?
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It occurs to me that organised religions, like corporations, are by their
nature (and in most cases in their actuality), generally very beneficial for
the top management, more or less ok for believers, and bad for non-believers.
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Take a closer look at Jesus’ ministry in the Gospels (and forget organized
“Christianity” for a moment). All He did was rail on the “top management” and
offer comfort and forgiveness to the lame, weak, and poor.
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My personal test for worthy organised religions (like corporations) is that
they are good for believers and top managememt according to their
contributions, and not bad for non-believers.
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But your caveat “organized” is well-taken. But do the sins of the followers
necessarily negate the message and the truth of the leader?
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What, no measure of ‘truth’?
Nope ;-)
If you want a religion based on truth, ask the first believer you can lay
your hands on. THEIR religion is the true religion.
To them.
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Well, duh, Richard. Who would adhere to a religion that they didn’t think was
the one true religion? :-)
JOHN
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Why be 'good' without god (was Re: Worthlessness)
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| (...) Damn straight. I like this. It more or less reflects me too. Based on my own meagre experience of life, I have found that there are some people I like and others I do not, some actions I like and others I do not, and some things I like to be (...) (20 years ago, 17-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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