Debate : 24707


Off-Topic / Debate / 24707

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —Bruce Schlickbernd

(...) There's only one part of your answer that matters: "No". When talking about something being "just" or "unjust", we are not talking about the power to enforce that, and I'm not addressing that at all. So, no, Saddam doesn't have the right to (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —David Koudys

(...) Its an example to show that you can't use a country's laws legally in another country. The UN had the resolution--the UN has to deal with enforcing it. The US, stating the UN resolution as reason to invade, but at hte same time acting against (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —Bruce Schlickbernd

(...) I thought I made it clear that I was not making any reference to the U.N. resolution you are refering to. (...) You just ignored it again!!! (...) But it happened because of stupidity, thus it was Yet Another Stupid European War caused by (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —David Koudys

(...) I thought we were talking about the legitimacy, legality, moralness, and wisdom of the war. I was setting out to show via example, how this war was illegal. (...) No I didn't (this is sounding like a bad Python sketch). If action is justified (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —Bruce Schlickbernd

(...) No. You said the war against Saddam was "unjust" and I disputed that. I did say in passing that I would dispute "illegal". It was never about the wisdom of the war, and I have said so repeatedly. Nor was it about Bush's stated reasons for (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —David Laswell

(...) The US didn't invade Iraq because Iraq was breaking US laws, though. The justification for the invasion was because Iraq had failed to live up to the sanctions imposed on them by the UN after the Gulf War. The UN set a deadline by which time (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —Scott Arthur

(...) Note: The "consequences" did not include what happened (i.e. armed intervention). (...) That is a rather subjective view. (...) What did SH do whilst Clinton was running things that was worth even lobbing missiles at? (...) I hear they have (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —David Laswell

(...) From what I can tell, the consequences didn't really amount to much other than saying "Stop, or I'll say 'stop' again!" If the UN wants to be taken seriously, they need to stick to their own decisions, and follow up on their resolutions in (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —Scott Arthur

(...) No, they need to ignore debates based on flawed intelligence. (...) Are you saying that mandate was still valid? (...) So Clinton should have done less; not more? (...) Britain comprises Scotland, England and Wales (i.e. Britain can't (...) (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —Bruce Schlickbernd

(...) James Stewart, son of Mary, Queen of Scots, followed Elizabeth I to the throne, so didn't Scotland take over England? ;-) -->Bruce<-- (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —David Laswell

(...) It sounds logical on paper, but after acceding to the English throne, James IV of Scotland (becoming James I of England) only returned to Scotland once during the whole of his rule, at which time he basically told them they were worthless (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —David Laswell

(...) They need to know that it's flawed intelligence before they can choose to ignore it on that basis. Last I checked the UN doesn't have a spy department, and SH was refusing access to their more direct information gathering services, like (...) (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Ross Crawford

(...) Ummmm scotsman only has one "t" :) And as an aside, it is a commonly held (mis?)conception in Australia (and more than likely elsewhere) that most Americans couldn't point to their home town on a map. But I was disappointed to see a Letterman (...) (20 years ago, 10-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —David Laswell

(...) It's also not spelled with a lower-case "s", but that's beside the point. (...) I've often wondered about this sort of thing. Admittedly, I have it easier than most US citizens, having lived my entire life on the longest lakeshore in the (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Thomas Stangl

Yes, I get tired of the "clueless American" geography issue, when I find so many non-US citizens are surprised to find out that I can drive for over 600 miles on relatively straight interstates without touching reaching the far end of the state I (...) (20 years ago, 11-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —David Koudys

(...) Takes me 20 hours(ish) of straight driving to get from my place in Ontario to the next province--Manitoba Though I'd say the best story about size and geography--a friends father tagged along with a university undergrad study course to look at (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Frank Filz

"David Koudys" <dkoudys@redeemer.on.ca> wrote in message news:I0qwBt.2D3@lugnet.com... (...) to (...) Yep, your provinces are pretty big... (...) tagged (...) former (...) which (...) country on (...) Careful though, 7 hours doesn't sound that (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —John Neal

(...) Hmmm, maybe it's a pretty darn big world after all! :-) JOHN (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Yeah, but LA to Boston is only 5 hours...he was flying east. Chris (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —David Koudys

(...) Added to that the idea that LA and Boston are on opposite coasts, whereas Moscow and the city whonse name I can't remember are not really near the 'outer edges' of the former Soviet Union. So the 7 hours was 'in country', not even going from (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Frank Filz

"David Koudys" <dkoudys@redeemer.on.ca> wrote in message news:I0r8qE.nzy@lugnet.com... (...) country on (...) non-stop (...) Moscow (...) edges' (...) True, I was just pointing out that 7 hours by itself isn't impressive. You need to add the fact (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Frank Filz

"Christopher Weeks" <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote in message news:I0r83n.J72@lugnet.com... (...) country on (...) non-stop (...) Good point. I just checked for Seattle to Miami, it's 5 hrs 44 minutes. I looked at Alaska Airlines schedule, can't (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —David Laswell

(...) Last I checked, it's faster to fly west than east, since you'd be flying into the planetary rotation instead of overtaking it. Also, you can't judge the size of a country very accurately by board-to-debark times, since many airlines pad those (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Frank Filz

"Purple Dave" <purpledave@maskofdestiny.com> wrote in message news:I0rBKu.1C9r@lugnet.com... (...) into (...) Flying against the planetary rotation might get you somewhere, I'm not sure how all the dynamics work. What I do know is that in the (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —David Laswell

(...) Basic physics says that if you spin the world in one direction, the air will (generally) spin in the other direction (counter-rotation, equal/opposite reaction and such), which should carry you even faster into the rotation and fight you even (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Bruce Schlickbernd

(...) Last I remember of Halley, Hadley and Coriolis that's not how it works, but it's been quite some time since I last looked at that kind of thing. The basic physics as I remember the model is that the heated air around the equator rises (the (...) (20 years ago, 14-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Your explanation of hot air movement and how it affects weather and climate matches my memory of the facts a lot better than the previous hot air explanation did. Thanks for posting that! (20 years ago, 14-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Dave Schuler

(...) Does this apply to driving, as well? If so, I may have found a new excuse for being late to work. But a more serious question: How big a factor *is* planetary rotation vis a vis commercial jet travel? I would have thought that, because flights (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Don Heyse

(...) I think the issue is the jet stream. It moves eastward somewhat faster than the ground, so going east you have a tailwind, and going west you have a headwind. Unfortunately for you, the mountains in PA aren't high enough for this to make you (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Dave Schuler

(...) I'll buy that, except that the original claim seemed to be that the rotation itself was the factor, not the jetstream. Admittedly, I may have misunderstood the framing of the problem: perhaps the question of east/west travel already assumed (...) (20 years ago, 14-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.geek)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Bruce Schlickbernd

(...) I must admit I have never checked, so I can't even say "last I checked", but since Long Jumpers don't slaver at setting world records on a west facing runway let me be the first official doubter. Going east helps getting into orbit since that (...) (20 years ago, 14-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —David Laswell

(...) Yeah, Russia is _almost_ bigger than any two of the other 5 largest nations, even after having large chunks of the ex-U.S.S.R. lopped off (and one of those chunks still ranks at #9 for both total land-mass and total area). In 1998, the (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Frank Filz

"Purple Dave" <purpledave@maskofdestiny.com> wrote in message news:I0ny3F.F5E@lugnet.com... (...) easier than (...) the (...) where (...) If it's (...) the US (...) without (...) single (...) the (...) failing to (...) of (...) Hmm, I think I could (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —David Laswell

(...) Have you ever lived in Kansas? ;) (...) Exactly. And to many Americans, knowing the geography of your neighboring States is roughly equivalent to knowing the geography of neighboring nations in Western Europe. The big difference is that most (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Frank Filz

"Purple Dave" <purpledave@maskofdestiny.com> wrote in message news:I0r5CA.243s@lugnet.com... (...) of (...) major (...) No, and I admit, I would have a harder time placing Kansas with just a map of natural features. (...) their (...) the US (...) (...) (20 years ago, 12-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Bruce Schlickbernd

(...) Look for the place with no elevation contours. :-) (...) What? False!!! Sam traveled Middle-earth from Mordor to the Grey Havens, something very few in Middle-earth could say that they had done. Now his old Gaffer, Hamfast, is given away by (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —David Laswell

(...) I try to avoid doing that as much as possible. I may live in Michigan, but we've got sand dunes nearby, rolling hills, and lots of faux-elevation (i.e. trees in great abundance). (...) I was thinking specifically of the scene in TFotR, where (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Thomas Stangl

(...) Yeah, the one that someone proved really WAS "flatter than a pancake" ;-) -- Tom Stangl *(URL) Visual FAQ home *(URL) Visual FAQ Home (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —John Neal

(...) Downright provincial:-) Moi: Canada, Mexico, Spain, Portugal, France, (West) Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Italy, Greece, Israel, Egypt, Jordan; most of those countries on multiple occasions, and 34 states. JOHN (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck( was Re: Geography —Larry Pieniazek

(...) Not bad. You have me beat for foreign countries, that's for sure. Countries: US, Canada, Mexico, United Kingdom, Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Switzerland, Italy, Australia, Japan States of the US: All but HI, ME, MT, AR, NM, ND (unless you (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck( was Re: Geography —Richard Parsons

(...) Oo! Oo! Finally a piddling contest I can do reasonably well in! Australia, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, France, Germany (both sides before the wall came down), Ireland, Malaysia, The Netherlands, New Zealand, Switzerland, Thailand, United Arab (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck( was Re: Geography —Ross Crawford

(...) (Enters the public toilet) Within Australia: All mainland states & territories, lived in Tasmania, NSW and Victoria Countries: USA, Canada, Indonesia, Italy, Austria, Czech Republic, UK (England, Wales, Scotland, Ireland) USA: California, (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck( was Re: Geography —John Neal

(...) What I've never done, however, is go below the equator. Sounds scary down there! But at some time I would like to see in person water circle the drain in the opposite direction;-) JOHN (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck( was Re: Geography —Christopher L. Weeks

Nations (in order, to the best of my ability): West Germany, France, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands, East Germany, Poland, Czechoslovakia, England, Denmark, Austria, United States, Mexico, Canada, Jamaica I have driven, as an adult, on my own, and (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck (was Re: Geography —Larry Pieniazek

(...) What's the order there? Chronological by earliest first visited, to most recently first visited? If so, were you an Army brat or expat's kid? For me, the chronological order starts with the US since I was born here... (US '59, Canada '59 (I (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck (was Re: Geography —Pedro Silva

(...) You got me curious now: isn't Labrador a part of Newfoundland nowadays? Administratively speaking, that is. ;-) Pedro (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck (was Re: Geography —Dave Schuler

(...) I think that Labrador is in charge of Retrieval. Dave! (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck (was Re: Geography —John Neal

(...) Irish you hadn't setter straight; for puns, I grousely outnumber you Dave! JOHN (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck (was Re: Geography —Larry Pieniazek

(...) I have no idea offhand and didn't look it up in advance. Perhaps someone else does know and feels strongly enough about it that they want to share. But being American, it's apparently expected that I not know... just trying to hold up the (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck (was Re: Geography —David Koudys

(...) I could hold up the Canadian stereotype, eh and say the centre of the universe is Toronto... Faulty history/geography recollection--Newfoundland came into Canada in '49 (or was it '52, should really refresh my memory on that one) When I was a (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck (was Re: Geography —David Laswell

(...) Two straight weeks in salt-water? That can't be good for your skin... ;P (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck (was Re: Geography —Christopher L. Weeks

(...) Yeah, I thought about that after I'd posted: "In order...of course it's in order, everything's in *some* order." It is chronological order of visitation. I was sort of an army brat. Dad was drafted during Vietnam and went to Germany and got (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck( was Re: Geography —John Neal

Yes it is. There! ;-) JOHN (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Not particularly on topic for .debate but what the heck( was Re: Geography —Frank Filz

"Larry Pieniazek" <larry.(mylastname)@...areDOTcom> wrote in message news:I0rxHu.uF0@lugnet.com... (...) had to (...) in (...) driving (...) My first hole is #4... I'm not well travelled in Texas (have been to Dallas and Fort Worth though, Dallas (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Pedro Silva

(...) When??? (refers to edited highlight) We ought to have given you a LUG reception, had we known in advance you were coming! :-) Great list. Mine is about the same size, but probably less extensive within the countries themselves: Portugal, (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —John Neal

(...) lol Well, Pedro, it was a little before your time (circa 1967:-) I was about 6 at the time and I'm sure I had my LEGO in the back seat of the rental car to keep me quiet and occupied;-) I was close in 1984 when I spent part of my honeymoon in (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —David Laswell

(...) See, there's one of the things I'm wondering about. Do Europeans and such have an easier time of placing their home town on a world map or globe where everything is color-blocked by nations? I grew up seeing a US map that was color-blocked by (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: Geography (was: We'll take in your poor....) —Ross Crawford

(...) Yep, and I'd probably have no trouble with the places I've lived (and most of the places I've visited) in Aus. I'd probably take a little longer to find the places I stayed in the USA & Canada, but I think I'd generally get pretty close. (...) (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —Scott Arthur

(...) Britain and France had a treaty with Poland which guaranteed its territorial integrity. A {much} overlooked point is that the USSR invaded Poland a week or two after Nazi Germany did. We did not declare war on them as Churchill hoped the USSR (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed... —Scott Arthur

(...) I can guess how it will deal with (URL) this>. I suppose the fact that this issue has been given this much attention is a small victory for those who really believe in freedom. Scott A (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)