 | | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Kirby Warden writes (in part): (...) I'll come out on this one. I love the film, Capricorn One [1]. I believe the hoax theory is plausible [2], and I even doubted the veracity of the moon landing for a few days a couple (...) (24 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: little green men
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Daniel Jassim writes (in part): (...) Actually, I think the consprirists only believe the moon landings themselves were faked, not the space program, nor the earth orbits. They seem to believe that we have orbited the (...) (24 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: on topic?
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(...) Well, I agree with the suggestion, but not for the same reason. Generally, I have no problem with threads changing subject, as long as the subject line points this out. However, as I use the web interface to post to Lugnet (most of the time), (...) (24 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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Here's a page that's highly biased against the hoax theory, but has links to lotsa stuff on both sides. ROSCO (...) (24 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Dog in pool incident
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(...) I'm not deluded about it now. Perhaps I should say that I felt that way AT THE TIME (i.e. I thought I was teaching that jerk a lesson). I realize now as an adult that beating him up didn't somehow convince him to be a better person. More than (...) (24 years ago, 9-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Dog in pool incident
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(...) Dan, I'm all for how you handled that. 100%. But don't delude yourself. What you did settled your internal justicemeter. It tought the thug nothing about respect for animals. The best it could have possibly done was taught him that some people (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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Nope, I don't do the converting thing. If someone doesn't agree with me on a topic, it doesn't disturb me in the least. However, I do enjoy being challenged, wheather I challenge myself, or find myself challenged by another force (people, (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: little green men
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i'm rather devided on the "want to believe" concept... ...the kid in me certainly thinks it a great idea to have aliens visiting Earth and leaving advanced technology... ...however, the realist in me doesn't think it would be such a hot idea to have (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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(...) Well, sure! And that's a perfectly valid reason in and of itself, wasn't challenging that. Just wondering if you had something deeper in mind with the question, is all. (Some convertor used this question as an opener to try to convince me of (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: little green men
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Could the moon landings have been faked, of course. However, I believe they happened and seriously doubt there was a conspiracy regarding the matter. We know the rockets went up and we have the first hand accounts of the astronauts who rode them. (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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(...) why not? aren't they debatable? (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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(...) Why ask about conspiracy theories? (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Larry Pieniazek writes: <snip> (...) Ummm...why what? (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I think the mechanism being used so far (undercover employees reporting what they see) seems to be working fine for identifying problems. I am satisfied that this problem exists, just not as of yet clear on how endemic it is, nor clear that my (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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(...) Beyond a shadow? I dunno. A shadow of doubt doesn't take much to support it. Beyond a reasonable doubt though, yes. (...) I share a trait with Dave! (see, got his name to be last in the sentence) I too will get into debates with people for no (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Conspiracy theories: men on the moon
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Is there anyone here who does not believe beyond a shadow of a doubt that men have indeed walked on the moon? I have spent some time in thought on this "conspiracy", and have decided, that I could never convince a skeptic that men have walked on the (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | bloody pictures
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Thank you Dan for providing the PETA link. Although the pictures and information on the site did not serve to change my cravings for beef products, it did serve to offer me a central source of information on the subject of animal cruelty and meat (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | on topic?
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the recent "debate" on animal rights/cruelty is "off-topic". The thread that this debate happens to be in, was originally about sexism in the work place. since someone kindly suggested to another that the "animal" debate should remain "on-topic", I (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | on the search for facts...
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I followed the PETA link that Dan provided. It was the first time I have ever been to the site and found it rather easy to navigate. Out of curiosity I even read an article specifically about animal abuse in rodeo. The article offered about a dozen (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Dog in pool incident
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(...) It happened when I was 16 years old. I was living in Michigan at the time and in the summer I made a trip to visit my family in California. Since my friends helped me get the pool running that summer, my mother agreed to let them swim there (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I understand the motivation too, I think (who can be *sure* they understand the motivation of others?). But I cannot condone force initiation. We must exhaust the rule of law first before we get that extreme. I share your concern about farming (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) How do you mean 'only' Frank? I mean, you could just type an email to your senator and figure that you've done your part. That would be an alternative action. But it wouldn't do anything. You could picket in front of the place. That would be (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I was trying to figure out how to say that, but I got hung up on how to actually do what you're suggesting Dan do. What about it? How would Dan, or I, substantiate claims of gross cruelty through negligence and intent? (...) Agreed. But do (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I think there's a real difference between burning down a supposedly empty building (the reports I've read weren't "empty" buildings, and destroyed not just the potentially abusive research, but also research which did not use animals) and (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I would assert that if you wish any success in encouraging people to change their views on the way animals are treated in this country that the onus is upon you to substantiate your claims. If the rest of us think that things are basically OK, (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) I don't think he was questioning the reasonability of your statement. He wanted you to cite some of the sources that you've used to come to that conclusion. Actually, I was reading the group yesterday when larry posted and went off to search (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) For the love of heaven, must we start a new thread as to define what a fact is? How about diatribe? Were there not enough facts given at these sites? The answers to your questions are often not right in front of you. Seek well and learn well. (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Pork chops anyone?
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(...) of them have cites). But they're better than the front page. (...) They appear to be hung off the media link. Not where I'd think to go first were I looking for facts. So no, in my exploring of a very busy and poorly laid out front page, I did (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) You assume too much. I did that already, or something close to it. Didn't like the quality of sites I found, and thought I'd just (without any aspersions being cast, which is why I just asked outright instead of prefacing it with "I already (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) What if it was an endorsement? Judge the motive before the deed. Sometimes certain causes lend themselves to extremes, so long as the innocent are not endangered. The worst fight I had in my life was when this guy threw my dog in my pool. I (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Pork chops anyone?
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(...) By all means, keep reading: (URL) you pass these up the first time around or are these reports the "rhetoric" you were talking about? Dan (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) Well, perhaps I've lumped things together. It's something most of us do. On the other hand, I'm not so sure they "distance" themselves from ALF, they certainly mischaracterize the actions in this FAQ: (...) Or perhaps the not so harmless (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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I wasn't born yesterday, my friend. The way I see it, Larry, you have a computer and are smart enough to research the issue of animal abuse (or lack of) for yourself. The fact that you haven't yet (and you admitted this) speaks to your lack of (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Pork chops anyone?
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(...) And it certainly wouldn't help the cruel treatment of other animals which aren't bred for meat. I don't have any links, but I volunteered at the RSPCA (Royal Society for Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) for several years, and have seen photos (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Slaughterhouse images
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Warning, not for the squeamish: (URL) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Visit to a slaughterhouse
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Warning, not for the squeamish: (URL) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Pork chops anyone?
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(...) I support investigation of this and prosecution if warranted. There are laws on our books against this sort of thing and they need to be enforced. PETA alleges this is pervasive and endemic, (which I'm not convinced they have shown, per se, (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) That's vandalism, which isn't quite as nonviolent a form of civil disobedience as some other ones, but it's small potatoes, I suppose. Actually hitting someone might be a bit of "assault", though. (...) I'm with you on this, Dan. Their FAQ (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Pork chops anyone?
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Warning, not for the squeamish: (URL) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Lobster Bisque (was: Did animals have rights before we invented rights?)
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(...) It's not obvious to *me*. Always looking for the disagreement, eh? I ask for some reading material because I want to have an open mind and do some research and you conclude that I disagree apriori. (...) Not interested in *countering* it. I'm (...) (24 years ago, 8-Jul-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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