 | | which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Charles Eric McCarthy
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| | | Hello Lugnet auction participants: As you might have noticed, I took the liberty of responding to this Lugnet auction thread with an offer to sell at a lesser price. (The thread was "Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge") I knew this might annoy (...) (26 years ago, 4-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —James Brown
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| | | | | (...) I think the only one who could determine if it is unethical would be Todd, since this is his site, he's the one who determines what is and isn't "right" on it. (That being said) I don't think it is unethical. BMS, (1) unethical would be (...) (26 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Steve Scott
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| | | | | | | James Brown wrote in message ... {snippity doo dah} (...) in a (...) Posting to the group serves the same purpose doesn't it? (...) I've retracted that comment in the interests of continuing a constructive debate :) (...) (26 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Jasper Janssen
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| | | | | | (...) If i were to email the high bidder with such an offer, I would expect him to honor his bid. I wouldn't expect him to outbid the next bidder, if someone raises his offer, though. I have been in such a situation before, and honored my bid. It's (...) (26 years ago, 8-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | (...) Or, you can do business at places that do retroactive price matching. When last we bought a television, we purchased it at Circus City and found at on sale a Dillard's (their last one) the next day. We went back to CC and got a refund of the (...) (26 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | (...) I agree with you. (...) You're in the right. (...) If I were you I wouldn't be willing to change my opinion no matter what anyone else says, but you've obviously gotten the support of the majority of the people who have responded to this (...) (26 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Thomas Main
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| | | | | (...) I wouldn't say it was unethical but I think it would have been more courteous as well as responsible to start a separate thread. While no one "owns" a particular thread, auction threads usually only have one purpose - to announce and update (...) (26 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Steve Scott
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| | | | | Ok, I've slept on it and am less angry than I was last night. Apologies for getting personal with the "parasite" comment, but I was annoyed as you clearly expected that I would be. Even in your own words, you "took a liberty" and that is the basis (...) (26 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | | (...) Some sales have been run this way. I believe it is called a 'reverse auction'. Steve (26 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | different types of auctions (was: Re: which threads, ethics ...) —Charles Eric McCarthy
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| | | | | | | (...) I think this sort of a reverse auction is a great idea. There has to be a large enough number of sellers at any given time for it to work, though. Eventually I think there will be. Even better, IMO, is where sellers could register sets that (...) (26 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: different types of auctions (was: Re: which threads, ethics ...) —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yup, reverse auctions (not to be confused with reserve auctions! :) are mentioned in the second paragraph here: (URL) Another thing, the charter of this group is: (...) Definitely. At least, it fits perfectly into the category of discussions (...) (26 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | (...) This is a specious argument as this is a real, actually used, and extremely valid auction format. I've done it myself as a buyer. Just as a seller's auction is good for scarce things, a buyer's auction is good for plentiful things. It is (...) (26 years ago, 5-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Steve Scott
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| | | | | | | | -----Original Message----- From: Larry Pieniazek <lar@voyager.net> Newsgroups: lugnet.off-topic.debate Date: 05 March 1999 23:07 Subject: Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) (...) I take your point that (...) (26 years ago, 6-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | | | (...) First, why would that be a problem? Second, I doubt it. Third, if the market is such that this _could_ happen, I might say that it _should_ happen. (...) Yes, let's. (...) Excellent! So the sellers (remember, Larry said this was a situation in (...) (26 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | Thanks, Chris. You explained it better than I had time to... There is always (beneficial) "chaos" in a free market. If a buyer or a seller prefers an unfree market, I prefer not to deal with them. (...) (26 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Steve, could you go into a bit more detail here? I don't understand what you mean by restricting auctions to a single seller. Do you mean restricting auction threads to a single poster (the seller)? (...) Chaos maybe in terms of sifting (...) (26 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Steve Scott
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| | | | | | | | Todd Lehman wrote in message ... (...) That was the idea, yes. Problem is, in the interim period since my original post I'm not so convinced that it was a good idea. It now sees to me that this type of system would prove restrictive to the (...) (26 years ago, 15-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Jasper Janssen
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| | | | | | (...) AKA: A Dutch auction. Why is this bad? (And I'm not just saying that because I'm Dutch, damnit! ;-> ) Jasper (26 years ago, 8-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Steve Scott
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| | | | | | Jasper Janssen wrote in message <36e75d14.42911029@l...et.com>... (...) It's not bad, my post was a bit unclear. The point I was trying to make was that if a standard auction is "siphoned" then it could turn into a Dutch auction. Cheers (...) (26 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Point taken. A standard auction can turn into a dutch auction if market conditions change. Why is that bad? Those calling for "orderly markets" are usually just about to do something stupid like slap price controls or tariffs or unrealistic (...) (26 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Naji Norder
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| | | | | This practice is called "Bid Siphoning." While it might be "good" for buyers, it _is_ discourteous, and is specifically forbid in most auction venues. From eBay's rules: "You may not email bidders in a currently open auction being run by a different (...) (26 years ago, 6-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Charles Eric McCarthy
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| | | | | | (...) I would like to differentiate "it _is_ discourteous" from "you find it to be discourteous." Clearly, some folks do not consider it discourteous. (...) But I didn't email any bidders. (...) But I didn't contact any bidders. I posted another (...) (26 years ago, 8-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Naji Norder
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| | | | | | | First of all, I think I successfully cross-posted this to lugent.off-topic.debate. Please remove market.auction in any replies. (...) I stand corrected. However, courtesy is not something that can be decided by individuals, because it is a social (...) (26 years ago, 8-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Jasper Janssen
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| | | | | | | (...) It might have been more politic to either change the subject, or edit the "References:" header, or both. By posting to the same thread, you _are_ effectively walking in on Steve, instead of being _completely_ separate. Note that I don't think (...) (26 years ago, 8-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | (...) Not to pick nits, but as much as Todd has shown himself willing to adapt things to fit the needs and wants of his users, any kind of "vote" held by the people who use Lugnet won't necessarily have any effect on how things are done here. This (...) (26 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Naji Norder
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| | | | | | | | This thread has come halfway through my semester course on the history of business and money in the US, so I'm just brimming with opinion on this stuff. (I finished reading _The Jungle_ just a few days ago.) Business and commerce are certainly (...) (26 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Who hates each other? I saw a lot of harsh things, I hate almost no one. Hate is a very special emotion that isn't really meant to be wasted on trivial things like online discussions. A person can only have so much hate and be healthy, so it's (...) (26 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Jasper Janssen
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| | | | | | | | (...) Hate? I've never yet found a thing worthy of hate. And _certainly_ not in newsgroups of one kind or another. Jasper (26 years ago, 11-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics vote —Steve Scott
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| | | | | | | Naji Norder wrote in message <36E43042.92BEBE44@c...er.org>... here are the two questions that I would put to a vote. (...) No (...) Yes (26 years ago, 9-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics vote —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) Define "within the thread of another", please. Threads are not owned. Therefore, yes to both questions. Now, the first may be a bit cheekier, but it's certainly better than private emails to the bidders making offers. Which is what you might (...) (26 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Steve Scott
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| | | | | | | Naji Norder wrote in message <36E575D9.557F30E6@c...er.org>... (...) Hey (back me up here Eric) nothing could be further from the truth! We kissed and made up (well, exchanged apologies actually) on day two. Then Mike bailed in with a couple of (...) (26 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I actually have documented proof that I am anything but a moron, if you must know. The rest certainly describe me at various times, especially lately. (26 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Charles Eric McCarthy
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Steve Scott wrote: (...) I'll back you up. Steve apologized both publicly and privately for the parasite remark and I told him I was sorry I upset him by posting to that thread. I don't hate him. However, I think the principle of whether (...) (26 years ago, 11-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | (...) ^^^...^^^ (...) Hey, I've always wanted something like that -- maybe a little card that I could keep in my wallet and pull out whenever I did something stupid. Like when I accidentally put a loaf of bread in someone else's grocery cart. --Todd (26 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) WHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Good one. :) (26 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I would advocate only the inclusion of an FYI note in the FAQ pointing out that this sort of thing is viewed as irritating by some people and viewed as natural by others, and further that doing this has historically been met with criticism. (...) (26 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Naji Norder
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) I think that this sounds like a good solution. Naji n (dot) norder (at) computer (dot) org (26 years ago, 16-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | (...) "I put wha? No that's my-- Wait, no. That's yourk--No wait, it's mine, it's got my bread I just put in. I don't get it, where's your cart then? You just put a box of oatmeal in mine. Oh wait, maybe this one *is* yours. I -- oykay I -- see what (...) (26 years ago, 15-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Beth Reiten
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| | | | | | | | | | I am SO glad that I'm not the only one who does that!! Don't get between me and my cart, or you're going to get boxes of cereal lobbed into your head! Beth Reiten (...) (26 years ago, 15-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Jeff Stembel
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) "Okay, I'm sorry! Please put the box of Grape Nuts(1) down!!" ;) Jeff (1)- Because of the weight, a box of Grape Nuts are the most lethal of cereals. ;) (...) (26 years ago, 15-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Beth Reiten
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| | | | | | | | <MPG.11561fd1c5b09f5...ugnet.com> <36ECAEF4.7E759E00@net-art.de> <F8n6op.B37@lugnet.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Although, some of the Muselix over here could give Grape Nuts a run for it's (...) (26 years ago, 15-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —John Neal
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| | | | | | | | I'll take you on with a large box of 100% Natural any day!! (...) (26 years ago, 17-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Christopher L. Weeks
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| | | | | | | <F8Cu8J.LyK@lugnet.com> <slrn7ebu7q.3dt.cjc@...S.UTK.EDU> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit (...) Sure, but if you can be those other things (whining, bitching, glib, ass) on a part time basis, even a bright (...) (26 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics vote —John Neal
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| | | | | | | <F8CsL7.Jq0@lugnet.com> <36E5F82E.693B3B6@voyager.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit If we all use common courtesy and play well there should be no (...) (26 years ago, 10-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | (...) I don't see this as an oversight at all. It's a natural part of the market dynamics and of competition in a free market. It's not something that everyone feels comfortable doing, and it's certainly not something that everyone is happy having (...) (26 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | (...) That's right. Every LUGNET design and development decision is approached with the overall near- and long-term needs of the community in mind (so near as those needs can be understood) but in the end, it is a business just as any other -- and (...) (26 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Mike Stanley
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| | | | | | (...) Bravo. Couldn't have (obviously) said it better myself. :) (26 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.admin.general)
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| | | | | Re: which threads, ethics (was: Re: Mini Auction - 6273 - Rock Island Refuge) —Todd Lehman
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| | | | (...) Although, strictly speaking, it is unnecessary to jump into the middle of an auction thread in order to sell an item similar to what is being sold on that thread, once could easily argue that doing so adds value to the overall usefulness of (...) (26 years ago, 14-Mar-99, to lugnet.market.auction)
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