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| Hi Matt, I had a similar reaction. I couldn't find my way through your sentences. And I am a very skilled reader. (...) Your poetry is fine but your sentences are too long. (...) Nah, the sentences are just too long. Your poetry and meaning are (...) (22 years ago, 17-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Okay, after a small review, I decided to edit some of the sentences. Most of the paragraphs were shortened, and I took the liberty to ameliorate the final paragraphs so they seem more readable. (...) True...they're rather abstruse at times...I (...) (22 years ago, 17-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| Matt, I revisited your tale and made it through the first two scenes. One point on presentation: it would be helpful if scenes were divided by something like asterisks (****). Also, this sentence: She asked, looking towards Dash, still donned in his (...) (22 years ago, 18-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Deleted that...upon second look, it did turn out to seem kind of repetative. (...) Well, I would only work on it for small spans at a time, leave it for a day, and arrive back at it again. Not good... (...) Actually, it's Ludan. Yeah, he won (...) (22 years ago, 18-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| In lugnet.castle, Matt Hein writes: <snippage> (...) The only "glaring failure" would be if you stopped writing altogether. You've got something that you want to say, that's why you write. Hopefully this process is helpful for refining your delivery (...) (22 years ago, 18-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| In lugnet.castle, Alan Findlay writes: <some snippage> (...) True. I don't believe I'm going to quit any time soon, though. :) I'm probably going to retype the original project (since a lot of it is very similar), so hopefully It will *eventually* (...) (22 years ago, 18-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| Hi Matt, I read some of your writing (not sure if this was before or after you edited it). It is actualy quite good in many ways (but that says a lot about the reader I am). If you want my advice it would be to create some contrasts. Such as some (...) (22 years ago, 19-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Thank you for your comments. They are highly valued. (I'm still assessing my target audience. Perhaps It would appeal to the more philosophical type?) (...) I'm planning on editing that as well. It seems that I kind of created an antithesis to (...) (22 years ago, 19-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| Hi Matt, In lugnet.castle, Matt Hein writes: SNIP (...) Thanks! That, or if you really worked at it, those interested in a slow building tension based around thoughts more then events (eg Tolkien's black riders in 'The Fellowship of the ring, the (...) (22 years ago, 20-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| Hi Matt, (...) The new version is much clearer. A few of suggestions for you: - you are definitely a writer. The fact that you keep coming back to it, after so many blunt criticisms, proves this. - you need to perfect your grammar and word (...) (22 years ago, 20-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Hmm...seems plausable enough. Oddly, though, I haven't yet taken the liberty to read Tolkein's trilogy yet (possibly due to the fact I don't want to subconsciously take some of the ideas and use them.) I'll probably give it a read, though. (...) (22 years ago, 20-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Hmm...reading some of the earlier dialogue from the predecessor chapters, I could easily tell I didn't place much incentive to further read within the dialogue. What was I thinking? I'll continue to refine it until something works. Thanks for (...) (22 years ago, 20-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Subconsciously take some of the ideas? haha! The way we see castle worlds like Ikros is because of tolkien. Warhammer, the popular minitures game, owes alot to the Lord of the Rings trilogy. so does the Sword of Shannara and the other (...) (22 years ago, 21-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Okay, that's probably true. However, unlike many others, I usually tend to be unorthodox and look from the other side of the boundary. Why borrow from someone else when I can create my own creatures/ continguincy? (okay, I admit I have used (...) (22 years ago, 21-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| Hi Matt, SNIP (...) I have read LOTR and the Simeraillion sp? (which I prefer). I am in less danger then yourself of stealing ideas since I, while not historicaly accurate, encompace no magic or weird creatures in my writing. LOTR is almost a must (...) (22 years ago, 21-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| Nathan Todd wrote in message ... (...) it (...) create (...) David Eddings goes into quite a lot of detail as to how he creates worlds (for his series the Belgariad and the Tamuli) in his book "The Rivan Codex". Worth a look if that's what you're (...) (22 years ago, 21-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Of course...However, intrepreting science-fiction into my story, magic is possible in a technical sense. (...) I've heard about Simeraillion...some fantasy geeks at my school tried to 'convert' me to Tolkeinism. I read a few pages, and somehow (...) (22 years ago, 21-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Is it based on the computer game genre 'Riven' by any chance? Probably not, sounds deftly similar, though. (...) Thanks for the advice! How far did you read into the story? (just evaluating. You're the test audience so I highly value those (...) (22 years ago, 21-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| "Matt Hein" <Pyrokid17@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet news:H7HEoG.n2u@lugnet.com... (...) Maybe because the Silmarillion is so vast (and quite ancient in style), and sketches the creation/world/history background for LOTR - The whole Bilbo + LOTR (...) (22 years ago, 21-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| Matt Hein wrote in message ... (...) Nope, nothing to do with Riven. DE wrote two series of 6 books (double trilogies), the first 6 being "The Belgrariad": the central character was Belgarion, King of Riva. Hence the Rivan Codex - there's a lot of (...) (22 years ago, 22-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Hmm...I'll probably take a look at it...so many fantasy novels out there, though. (that's why I'm trying to incorporate some sci-fi elements into it. The beginning sections anyway.) (...) Tells you something...did you get bored easily while (...) (22 years ago, 22-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) This is precisely why writing is an artform and not a science. There is no real way to measure exactly when something is too detailed or not enough, and there is always variation in your readers. My advice is to provide only what detail is (...) (22 years ago, 22-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| Hi Matt, I too think that it would be a good idea to dive a bit into LOTR. Not, however, to get story/character ideas. You are taking the correct path, IMO, in creating your own world and creatures. The value from LOTR, I believe, will come from the (...) (22 years ago, 22-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Ah, finally more interesting discussion in this thread. :) (...) Yes, I was wondering when someone would eventually state something to that extent...right now I'm looking for rather metaphorical ideas for detail. (something which seems rather (...) (22 years ago, 22-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| "leonard hoffman" <glencaer@hotmail.com> skrev i meddelandet news:H7JKnC.2o9@lugnet.com... (...) is, (...) plot. (...) a (...) rather (...) I don't agree. Any story giving only the relevant details will feel 'thin'. Some details become relevant just (...) (22 years ago, 22-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Definitely...trying to be original for once, since I noticed the growing collections of fan fiction that people always seem to write. (...) Guess I'm due to read Tolkein's works, then...when writing the dialogue, I attempted to reveal the (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| Hi Matt, Stuff like "terra incognito" isn't the problem. The following: ****** “Hmm…you continue to demean such an epitome principle as rank, yet in your stance, never waiver from its respective boundaries…” Dash spoke, as he continued. “If you are (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| In lugnet.castle, Leonard Hoffman writes: Great post! (snipped it, but it's worth rereading...) I know some people don't like Orson Scott Card, and some do. But this book of his _How to Write Science Fiction & Fantasy_ is chock full of good advice. (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general, lugnet.publish)
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| (...) Actually, Terra Incognita. Nah, it's the dialogue. And by the looks of it, I think I went rather overboard. (...) I'll try to explain these...of course, This should be rather fun. (...) Since Dash is speaking to Skye, he's basically saying (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Well, I've got quite a nice list of books to peruse for christmas vacation. (not a bad collection, as that :) However, what if you were trying to fuse story types? For example, let's say you're writing the book in a historic stance, yet it's (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general, lugnet.publish)
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| (...) What is the desired focus? That something is set in a particular time period does not in and of itself make it milleau... if the characters are what drive the story, it's still character. It's not a forcing per se I don't feel, but a way to (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general, lugnet.publish)
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| (...) Ursula Le Guin has identified the "multiple foci" perspective as the hardest to execute effectively. I'm not sure I agree 100%, but it's definitely tricky to write character sufficiently distinct from one another to allow the reader to believe (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general, lugnet.publish)
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| (...) The desired focus by far would probably be event driven. (with a small amount of character thrown in as well.) (...) Okay, I haven't really gone into explanation of those, (technology) although there would be some minor inclusions when it (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general, lugnet.publish)
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| (...) True, but we are talking about storycraft, not castle construction. On reflection, publish is the right place I think. (and not o-t.geek either) (...) Yes I have. I have not read all of it but I think much of what others said applies. I found (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general, lugnet.publish)
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| (...) No, I didn't get bored, to be honest I got really really irritated with all the big words thrown in without apparently knowing what they mean. It gets in the way of the communication. I just went back and took another look, and I see you've (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Very well. (...) Okay, I'm working on that and a small index. (...) Hmm...you've got a point there. Perhaps I was trying to convey that he was rather evasive (?) Evasive to reveal his opinion? (...) Hmm...okay, the clouds were almost shaped (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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| (...) Boy, you and Sanburn are really zany for posting-group purity! 8^) I moved my part of the thread to ot.geek because I shifted into a particular discussion of authors, rather than the niceties of writing. But if you think it's better steered to (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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| (...) I can honestly say I knew what they meant, just improperly used some of them in the dialogue. (Several of the uses were largely inappropriate as pointed out earlier. I'm still reviewing for phrases to edit out.) My apologies if this served as (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) Great. Now, a note... The samples I picked were just that, samples. I chose a few to illustrate a point, not that if you fix these you're all set. They're characteristic of much of the work that I read. (...) You're often better off not (...) (22 years ago, 23-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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| Hi, I have to say: I just started reading Tolkien 3 years ago (6+ if you count the hobbit). I read the hobbit, and like a lot of people I know, hated it. After that I decided not to read any more Tolkien. Then why passing through an airport on a (...) (22 years ago, 24-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) I'm going to fix the dialogue first, then work on the rest of the specifics. (...) Avoid it all costs so the reader can figure it out, then. Noted. (...) Ah, this sounds pretty fun, actually. Why make an enemy obvious when in fact, they would (...) (22 years ago, 24-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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| In lugnet.publish, Matt Hein writes: <lots of good back and forth> I can't stay too long tonite, I got a mountain calling my name but I will just leave you with this one clarification _Wild Seed_ *is* a fantasy. It may not be the conventional swords (...) (22 years ago, 24-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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| (...) My apologies with the rather tenuous response. My family gave me a little ten minute ultimatum on the computer, so I was pressed to write the reply rather hastily. :) (...) Nah, conventional fantasy is *way* too repeated. Maybe I should (...) (22 years ago, 24-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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| Matt, Your mis-use of long words is too frequent to catalogue. If you honestly knew what they meant, why mis-use them? If you plan to use long words, I suggest you check each and every one with a dictionary - preferably one that has quotations from (...) (22 years ago, 24-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| Hi Matt, Just delurking to adding my two-cents. Of all the books on writing that I've read, Kit Reed's "Story First: The Writer As Insider" is, by far, the easiest to digest. She writes in a pretty straightforward, conversational tone. It's not (...) (22 years ago, 24-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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| (...) Nice question. Let's get down to the specifics. 1. I wrote the original manuscript for this story over two years ago. Have you taken a second look at the writing yet? (you'll notice I really toned down a lot of the words in part three.) 2. I (...) (22 years ago, 24-Dec-02, to lugnet.castle, lugnet.general)
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| (...) If you're writing science fiction/fantasy, take a look at the Usenet newsgroup rec.arts.sf.composition. There are some really great people there and a lot of good advice. You can find it via Google Groups if you don't have Usenet access... (...) (22 years ago, 24-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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| (...) It can, but Tom Swifties can be even more irritating to read. Often you can just skip the whole thing altogether, and just have the quotes, if it's two people speaking... Bob walked up to Mary and whispered in her ear. "I think we should go (...) (22 years ago, 25-Dec-02, to lugnet.publish)
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