Subject:
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RE: Something else is needed, I think...(long)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Sun, 2 May 1999 18:43:24 GMT
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Viewed:
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951 times
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Mark wrote:
> I do not believe that a "bridge" is possible. LegOS and NQC function on two
> radically different premises -- the former requiring nothing beyond the hardware,
> the latter requiring the hardware and an acknowledgeably limited firmware. It
> would seem to me that what lies exactly in the middle is something which requires
> the hardware (of course) and the presence of a firmware that happens to be more
> robust than the one included with the Mindstorms RIS. The two most annoying
> limitations of the RCX standard firmware are, IMO, the 32 variable limit per program,
> and the inabilty to have local variables (in the true sense of the term). I do not
> believe that it is viable to make a new firmware that is backwards compatible with
> the standard firmware without sharing most of its same limitations.
>
> If I am wrong, then a bridge may prove to be quite feasible.
I think there IS a bridge, and it's pbFORTH (and since I wrote it I like it :)
Here is why I think the current pbFORTH is like the bridge you describe:
1. You don't need the GNU compiler set up to use pbFORTH. I used it to originally
write pbFORTH, but the users don't need it.
2. You DO need Dave Baum's NQC or equvalent to upload the new firmware to your
RCX. The nice thing about NQC is the wide variety of platforms it runs on. You
also need adumb terminal program for your PC - not hard to find for many platforms.
3. pbFORTH uses a standard interface to the RCX firmware, which was disassembled
by Kekoa Proudfoot and can be read about on his site. This means that the sensor
processing, LCD update, motor drivers, etc are all using LEGO approved and tested
routines.
4. pbFORTH will very soon have a simple cooperative multitasker. It is currently
being tested.
5. pbFORTH will soon have about 15-20K of space for definitions and code, which will
allow for sophisticated applications. The Apollo command module had something like
8K of code ;-)
6. FORTH has a rich history in embedded control and allows very close-to-the-metal
coding and interactive debugging. It also is unforgiving of mistakes and will
crash your RCX (without hurting it, of course) if you step on important variables
or enter an endless loop.
There are a few disadvantages to pbFORTH
1. It requires you to learn a wierd new language. But you had to learn C and HTML
and other scripting languages too, right?
2. It is not as popular as C so it's harder to find books, but the WEB is great
free resource.
3. It hasn't really caught on yet in this group.
4-n. Any others I can't think of or admit to right now
I am willing to support pbFORTH as much as I can, but I need feedback as to the
kinds of questions we need answered. I hope that I can consolidate some of the
comments and suggestions I have received so far and get a good following like
Dave Baum and Markus have been able to gather.
See reference in my sigline below:
Cheers,
Ralph Hempel - P.Eng
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Check out pbFORTH for LEGO Mindstorms at:
<http://www.bmts.com/~rhempel/lego/pbFORTH/default.html>
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Reply to: rhempel at bmts dot com
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Something else is needed, I think...(long)
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| In article <000101be94cb$a8fd58...a@pro150>, Ralph Hempel <rhempel@bmts.com> writes (...) My QBasic program available from www.phesk.demon.co.uk/lego/ can download the Lego firmware from DOS - where can I find your new firmware to test it with, (...) (25 years ago, 3-May-99, to lugnet.robotics)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Something else is needed, I think...
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| (...) ^^^...^^^ That is exactly the point that I was trying to make. (...) Again, though, such a system would bear the incredible weight of having a full-blown C/C++ cross-compiler and linking system as being part of the package. Making legos (...) (25 years ago, 2-May-99, to lugnet.robotics)
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