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Well that's a crazy headline isn't it... but no crazier than some in the regular media I'm surprised to see no mention yet here of "rathergate" as it is being called in the blogosphere. Were the memos about Bush's service that CBS 60 minutes ran a (...) (20 years ago, 14-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) They're clearly forgeries, but the fun part now is developing the best conspiracy theory. I don't think your MS-IBM conspiracy is gonna work, but there are plenty of other whoppers to choose from. They have some nifty samples here. (URL) (20 years ago, 14-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) Somebody has it in for Dan Rather and CBS. The documents are clearly forgeries meant to make DR and CBS look silly. They have been had, and how! Now, here is the problem: if CBS admits the docs are fake, they will be ethically bound to reveal (...) (20 years ago, 14-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) On what basis do you conclude that these documents are forgeries? I remind you that the claims re: non-availability of font-type; non-availability of proportional spacing; and non-availability of super-script have all been thoroughly refuted. (...) (20 years ago, 14-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) Unfortunately I did not realise that link changes day by day. It's changed this afternoon to a new article. The article I was referring to was this one: (URL) for any confusion. Note that midway through the article it has a very nice animated (...) (20 years ago, 14-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) That's worth remembering. I can produce a real-looking pre-1985 dollar bill in Photoshop, but that hardly proves that the next 1984 dollar bill you receive came off of my desktop. After all, the Shroud of Turin can be reproduced with relative (...) (20 years ago, 14-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) The evidence is voluminous, but here is the most recent I've seen: === By PETE SLOVER / The Dallas Morning News HOUSTON – The former secretary for the Texas Air National Guard colonel who supposedly authored memos critical of President (...) (20 years ago, 14-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) Oh please. Don't tell me you actually believe they're real. I know you're just being argumentative. (URL) just agree that Bush most likely did benefit from family influence in the Vietnam era and move on to the interesting stuff. The obviously (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) As much as she seems to like taking shots at anyone and everyone (she did, after all, blame both Bush and Canada for that huge blackout last year, in spite of the fact that Bush wasn't really any more culpable than Clinton, and Canada had (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) I'm guessing an outsider who just wanted to bilk CBS. Or maybe an outsider who thought they could harm Bush. But not a member of any fairly well organized group, or it would have come up that they couldn't hope to pull the forgeries off. (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) You mean like his cocaine abuse, his as yet untreated alcoholism, his obvious Daddy Issues, his inability to accept responsibility for anything, and his inability to keep from failing at any business venture not expressly handled on his (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) Sure, you can change the subject and Move On to that stuff if you want, but I meant the interesting implications of the forgeries, alluded to by the "secret plot" bit in the subject header. I suppose it's possible that this is all just a silly (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) Well sure, but that's the whole desire of the Bush camp, isn't it? Don't pay any attention to the issues relevant to Dubya's competence or fitness for leadership; simply focus on whether or not a "th" could or couldn't have been superscripted (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) I remember my friend who had an IBM Selectric in 1974 or 75. He did proportional typing and superscripting. Alas, I no longer have any examples of his messages, but I remember the superscripting looked different - I don't know if that was (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) I like what the officer's secretary said (paraphrasing)... "those memos are obviously fake, because I didn't type them, and men just didn't do secretaries work back then... but the ideas they express are obviously true" But again, does this (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) I should have read the paper this morning - the secretray thing was on the fold and I tossed the paper in the car without reading it. Interesting. She doesn't confirm the memos as real, but confirms Bush's commanding officer's opinions (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) In this case, repetition obviously doesn't teach the donkey-- Looking back at the companies that Dubya the Idiot was in charge of, looking at his record in the forces, and his personal life, a la cocaine and alcohol, and yet he still became (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys wrote: <snip> (...) I know that sometimes my grammar is atrocious, but those paragraphs were just horrible! Eh, whatever... Dave K (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) Jeez, you Canadians don't know anything. Americans like Bush because "he keeps us safe," "he's a likeable guy," and "he has strong morals and values." All right, the real reasons are these: he has terrified most Americans into believing that (...) (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) ROTFLMAO! Oops. Am I going to get into acro-trouble again??? :-) JOHN (20 years ago, 15-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) Ideaology. People don't want to believe that their candidate can do any wrong because the alternative is electing a guy that they disagree with. So, they stick their head in the sand, and pretend like these things aren't fundamental flaws that (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) No, but as far as I'm concerned you still haven't properly addressed that ill timed and extremely insensitive (URL) worthless> comment. (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) How about this-- I didn't write it on Sept 11th (in my time zone), so your point is moot AFAIAC JOHN (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Worthlessness
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(...) All right then, why don't you simply address the worthless part and forget about the proximity to that particular date. Hey, I've got an idea. Since the worthless comment stemmed from an argument over the pictoral interpretation of the bible (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) Without trying to dilute your point, which I find quite valid, I have to say that your question piqued my curiousity. So, for what it's worth. A quick search via Google got me this page: (URL) it is claimed that the Samaritans adopted old (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Microsoft and IBM in secret plot?
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(...) However, daily I read news items like -- (URL) mean, a person gets fired over a bumper sticker? I'm sure that if someone were to do some research, they'd find someone who may have been shown the door 'cause they had a 'Bush/Cheney' sticker on (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) Of course they weren't--that's what makes the parable so good-- See Jesus says that the 'God' folk passed on helping the beat up sod in the gutter, but the Samaritan, without being a believer, was the only one who had the compassion to help (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) That's actually about the best argument for atheism that I've ever heard a non-atheist put forth. If we as individuals accept the responsibility of caring for the planet and for each other during our fleeting time here, then what more is (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) The issue was not that the Samaritan woman was or wasn't a Jew. It was that she was not a Hebrew, and therefore a Gentile, and therefore supposedly racially inferior to all the people who crossed to the other side of the street. Besides, when (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) Well, I do usually concur with your assessments... I don't go "I'm contributing to this charity *because* I'm a Christian!" or "I'm helping this little old lady across the street *because* of my Christian values!" Much like, I suppose, you (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) I could, but that sounds very uninteresting to me. And part of my problem with the BT is that depictions of Biblical stories using LEGO minifigs tend to mock them (the stories, that is:-) LEGO sculptures of a creche, for instance, are okay. (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) You should, or else Dave! is correct. (...) You should, or else Dave! is correct. (...) Not at all the same. I still don't have a satisfactory answer from atheists to the question "why do good?" (from a personal standpoint rather than some (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) I don't agree at all. It's this 'do right 'cause you're a Christian' that disenfranchises others from seeing what is, I believe, true Christianity. I try to do good works because it is the right thing to do (more later). Whether that comes (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) If I contribute to a charitable cause, I do it because I have judged the charitable cause to merit my contribution and because I have determined that I am able to contribute. Honestly, that's as much introspection as I give the matter. (...) I (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) Hey, thanks for clearing all that up. Don merely asked whether they were believers or not, but all that extra background is great stuff. I also learned something else interesting. You think the Samaritan was a woman... the King James version (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) Because you won't be satisfied? John, you and I do good for the same reasons. Our genes tell us to. They tell us to because by telling us, they enabled us to build a society that protects us against the predators. Mutual beneficence is (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) As far as I can tell, the Samaritan is conventionally credited as a man, but the earliest version I can remember hearing as a wee tot in Sunday School (yes, with feltboard images and everything) was a woman (which is probably why I always (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) Let me ask you this: If tomorrow you found out for 100% certain that God didn't exist, would you still do good things? Or would you breathe a sigh of releif and start raping babies? I think we do good because we want to. Now, you may think (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) Here's an answer for you: I "do good," as you put it, because I have spent time thinking about life, the universe, and my role in it and have decided based on my own observations that mean people suck. I don't believe in any god, but I do (...) (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) LOL!!! Gotta love that reasoning!!! ROSCO (20 years ago, 16-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Why be 'good' without god (was Re: Worthlessness)
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(...) Damn straight. I like this. It more or less reflects me too. Based on my own meagre experience of life, I have found that there are some people I like and others I do not, some actions I like and others I do not, and some things I like to be (...) (20 years ago, 17-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Why be 'good' without god (was Re: Worthlessness)
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(...) So, are you saying that you do "good" because it makes you feeel good? (...) Yes, it would be helpful to get a working definition of what "good" is so that we can all be on the same page. For me, doing "good" is doing what I believe God wants (...) (20 years ago, 17-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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Well, My thoughts... The Wyld Stalyns got it right: "Be Excellent To Each Other!"...."Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" was ahead of it's time.. oh, geez...ok, realized that was a bad pun in itself... Ok, I might incite a religious riot after the (...) (20 years ago, 19-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Worthlessness
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(...) Just about every time I've been completely disgusted by a post on Lugnet, it's been for this reason. "Or else Dave! is correct?" So many people around here turn everything into an us-vs-them. Somebody disagrees with your ideas, you could (...) (20 years ago, 19-Sep-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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