 | | Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Greg Majewski
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| | | Hello, While going through some of the current official Lego design contest entries held on their site, I came across a startling discovery: The model in first place has been on the web for as long as I can remember, and it also belongs to Mr. Greg (...) (25 years ago, 1-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Troy Cefaratti
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| | | | | Greg, Being the curious one, i went to check this out. I did NOT find the apc you have listed among the choices for this months model in the Builders Gallery. I did, however, see "large tracked vehicle", from this site: (URL) is listed in first (...) (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Greg Majewski
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| | | | | | | (...) As soon as I posted here, I immediately e-mailed the Lego Web Club, so they may have done something about it. I haven't checked the site today, so I am going to look myself, but I KNOW that I saw Greg Williams's vehicle there last night. Greg (...) (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Troy Cefaratti
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| | | | | | | | It would seem that I was in the wrong place :) I was looking in the regular gallery, not the THEME gallery. But it's pretty bad when I still managed to find the same situation, although with a different model! Greg Majewski <citrusx__@yahoo.com> (...) (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Mark Haye
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| | | | | | Well color me surprised. That's definitely my model ... but I ain't 10 years old and I ain't in Canada (not that there's anything wrong with being 10 years old and living in Canada ... it just ain't me). I sent an e-mail to webclub@lego.com earlier (...) (25 years ago, 3-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Greg Williams
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| | | | | | I just checked the contest pages this morning. Both of our models have been removed from the contests. I'm glad LEGO has seen to it to respond to this in a timely fashion. I have to admit I'm kinda bummed that it was removed, though, since it was (...) (25 years ago, 3-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —David Simmons
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| | | | | I would love to see the pictures, but TLG has that stupid Web Club member password garbage. That's why I never browse their pages. Greg's discovery only bolsters my continued avoidance of their site. Dave Greg Majewski <citrusx__@yahoo.com> wrote in (...) (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Patricia Schempp
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| | | | | Greg, you forgot to state exactly where that page is, its kinda hard to find. The address for the lego site is (URL) that with the URL greg posted. oHyeah, this one is obvious. ten year olds rendering that in POVray? don't think so... (...) (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Julie Krenz
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| | | | | | Patricia, I followed your link and came up with a submarine. But you helped, I couldn't get that far on my own :-) Here's what I come up with for what Greg is talking about: (URL) view all models: (URL) looks like plagiarism to me. I hope there's no (...) (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Patricia Schempp
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| | | | | | don't know what's up with the links, i followed yours and came up with login screen for the web club. You can get to the page without logging in if you go to "new on www.lego.com" on the yellow remote on the right side of the first page, and that (...) (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Patricia Schempp
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| | | | | Hmm...greg williams has directions on how to build it on his site so the kid could have "built" it, but ceratinly didn't design it or make pictures of it. Unless greg w is masquerading as DEJNAP, 10 years old form sweden..... (...) (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Greg Williams
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| | | | | Yikes! Thanks, Todd, for pointing me to this thread. I admit I haven't been keeping up with lugnet lately. That is indeed my APC model on the LEGO website. However, after reading the rules I wonder if LEGO will do anything. Here's an excerpt: "The (...) (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Matthew Miller
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| | | | | | | (...) [snip] (...) Given the context, I think "misdirected" means it's not TLG's fault if some kid puts the wrong address on their envelope. (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Ben Gatrelle
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| | | | | | | | (...) Or that the Postal Service delivers it to the wrong address I would think. Ben Gatrelle (25 years ago, 3-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Ben Roller
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| | | | | | | (...) So, does this mean that your model now belongs to them? Oh, and they won't give it back. :) Mostly kidding, Ben Roller P.S. I tend to agree that misdirected entry means something near "lost in the mail", but who knows. (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —John Morgan
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| | | | | | In lugnet.general, Greg Williams writes: you could call Lego Shop @ home and ask to speak to somone in consumer affiars( I think this is the correct name) I was told about this while placing an order. I had asked the question as to why the service (...) (25 years ago, 2-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Re: Can we say, "Plagiarism"? —Bryce McGlone
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| | | | | (...) to (...) or (...) didn't even bother to build it, take a picture and then submit the model. He just left it in POVray. Like some of the other people resonding to this one I am annoyed with the Official Site. It really is just marketing and (...) (25 years ago, 3-Aug-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Susan Hoover
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| | | | (...) of reading another thread ((URL)), and I have to say that I really like the November winner, submitted by mojo_z, 14, of Canada. That is, I like the model, probably because it's MINE. It's the Trojan Horse that won the grand prize in Joe (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Tamyra Teed
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| | | | | I see 2 pics up and they are both yours Susan, I would definately contact Lego about this, Especially if the kid won some prize. I would hope they would contact him and talk to the parents and get the prize taken away. To bad someone didn't notice (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Frank Filz
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| | | | | (...) Absolutely, I would send them e-mail, and also a letter. (...) Is there a prize? If so, I would press copyright violation charges (since the winner earned money which by rights should have been yours). follow-ups to: lugnet.publish (24 years ago, 21-Jan-00, to lugnet.general, lugnet.publish)
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| | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Doug Dropeskey
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| | | | Susan Hoover <hoover@compuserve.com> wrote in message news:8EC2861C8rumple....63.236... (...) Perhaps I was a bit presumptuous but I emailed TLC, explaining that you had been plagiarized and asking that they quickly resolve this issue by pulling the (...) (24 years ago, 23-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | I think you done good. If TLC wants us to respect their IP, they have to respect ours too. Now, it's true that posting a model to their site grants certain IP rights but they need to consider how to effectively prevent copied models. (24 years ago, 24-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Susan Hoover
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| | | | | | (...) I said as much in my letter to them. :-) (...) However, if the model and images weren't mojo_z's to begin with, then he doesn't own any IP rights that he can grant to others. In my letter to TLC (which is called TLG on the Theme Gallery rules (...) (24 years ago, 25-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Tamyra Teed
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| | | | | | You will let us know what they said about the letter I'm sure :) Hope everything works out for the better! Think about this, I do believe we need someone to keep an eye on this site on a regular basis to make sure this doesn't happen again. I (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Tony Priestman
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| | | | | | | On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, Mookie (<388E6181.28DD3F5B@....att.net>) wrote at 02:52:49 (...) I haven't looked, so I can't comment on the rules, but rather than getting all formal, they could just say that the submission must include a picture of the (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Susan Hoover
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| | | | | | | | (...) I thought about suggesting that, but I dismissed it as a bad idea, as it might attract kidnappers or child pornographers or something. (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Tony Priestman
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| | | | | | | | On Wed, 26 Jan 2000, Susan Hoover (<8EC76843Erumplestx...8.63.236>) wrote at 15:49:58 (...) Well, they wouldn't have to display the 'proof' picture, just have it as evidence. One would hope that they've got internal procedures for stuff like (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Richard Franks
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| | | | | | | | (...) But how would they know that the kid pictured was the kid who sent in the application? The safest way to determine that no cheating has taken place might be to cache every LEGO image on the internet and compare using image recognition. A (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Tony Priestman
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| | | | | | | | | On Thu, 27 Jan 2000, Richard Franks (<FozIrM.FA1@lugnet.com>) wrote at 08:11:46 (...) They don't know that *now*. Anyone can say they're a 14yo. Like I said, it can be faked, but you can't just steal a picture of a model and submit it. (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Maybe applicants could contact Lego in advance of model submission, and Lego could then send a visually distinctive (by color, perhaps, or image pattern?) voucher that must appear in the picture with the prospective model. This probably isn't (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Tamyra Teed
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| | | | | | | | (...) I would say more cost effective than having lawyers sic'd on em.. The way they get about someone invading their rights, they should expect the same from someone who's rights they violate with this. Granted it's not their fault in some (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Mike Poindexter
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| | | | | | | | | Mookie <Mookie1@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message news:38905CA0.1E3284...att.net... (...) I would say not. Is a single AFOL going to sue TLC? No way! They already have lawyers on salary, so it isn't going to run up their bills as fast as the (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | | | Mike Poindexter wrote in message ... (...) route (...) The (...) just (...) Just (...) to (...) Actually, I think if you had a good solid case (which I think this particular instance is), I think you'd find you would do quite well. I don't know (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) I don't want to start a range war or anything but I DO want to say that, whatever TLC's other faults, I don't see their lawyers as NEARLY as bad as a lot of other firms. I really feel their fair play policy is a model of reasonableness and we (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) That's true--I wasn't very precise in wording my earlier post, either. TLC lawyers are indeed remarkably cool about web-posting images and scans. I was referring more to materials that they decide are "off limits" and the vigor with which they (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Bang Bang (was Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | Dave(bang) said: (...) And I'll see your ! and raise you one. Amen!! (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Bang Bang (was Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) D'oh! Too rich for my blood. I'm out! Dave. (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Susan Hoover
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| | | | | | | (...) Here is the letter that I received in full: "Hello, Thank you for the e-mail! Someone else has written in about this so called Winner in November. We will have to see what happens. Best regards" The letter that I sent was much longer. (...) I (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Frank Filz
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| | | | | | | | Susan Hoover wrote in message <8EC773C68rumplestx@...63.236>... (...) That's a pretty limp letter from a corporation which is currently violating a copy right. They also should have been able to investigate the claim and have already removed the (...) (24 years ago, 26-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Doug Dropeskey
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| | | | | | | | | Frank Filz <ffilz@mindspring.com> wrote in message news:FoyLt9.9y8@lugnet.com... (...) violating (...) The reply I received (which I passed on to Susan) was very similar and equally compact but a bit more positive. At least someone has acknowedged (...) (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Agreed--especially considering the zeal with which they protect their own "intellectual properties." Dave! (24 years ago, 27-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | | | | (...) I aggree with this. It also means that parents have the final say on whether kids submit their models to the contest, especailly if they have to submit some personal details as well. -- Jonathan Wilson wilsonj@xoommail.com (URL) (24 years ago, 28-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Jeff Johnston
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| | | | | | (...) Of course, this assumes that the parents are honest themselves, or at least care whether or not their kid does something unethical like submitting someone else's creation to a LEGO Web Page. I mean, the kid has to have learned that such (...) (24 years ago, 28-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Steve Hodge
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| | | | | | | (...) Not just unethical, illegal. (...) Actually I think school is a more likely source. I don't recall many discussions about copyright violations happening at home in my childhood. Regards, Steve Hodge (24 years ago, 29-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Colin Gutierrez
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| | | | | | | | (...) I think he was referring to taking credit for someone else's work in general, not violating copyrights. --Colin __ __ __ __ __ __ | |_| |_| |_| | | |_| | | | Brick Engineer | | | Colin R Gutierrez | __ __ __ __ | 2000 | |___...___|| |_| |_| (...) (24 years ago, 29-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Troy Cefaratti
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| | | | | | (...) *somewhere*. (...) I don't think it is so much that the parents teach the kids that this type of behavior is OK as it is that they DON'T bother to teach them that it is NOT OK. Just an observation from a non-parent, but quite a few parents (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Plagiarism again (Was: Can we say, "Plagiarism"?) —Susan Hoover
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| | | | (...) [snipped story of stolen November 1999 Theme Gallery winner at (URL)] (...) Thanks, Tamy, Frank, and Doug. I have also e-mailed LEGO at the only address I could find, webclub@lego.com. So far I have not gotten a reply, and my model is still up (...) (24 years ago, 25-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Resolved! (Was: Plagiarism again) —Susan Hoover
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| | | | (...) I checked earlier today, and my model was still there, but I just checked again, and it's been taken down. The November winner is now a cute dragon that looks like it was done by a 5-year-old, and in fact a 5yo is credited with its design. (...) (24 years ago, 29-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Resolved! (Was: Plagiarism again) —Charles Eric McCarthy
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| | | | (...) Wouldn't you prefer that your model win the November contest over some other model? Subject to your approval of course, I think they should have left the model there, and switched the credit and prize from the plagarist to you. Although it (...) (24 years ago, 29-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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| | | | | | Re: Resolved! (Was: Plagiarism again) —Susan Hoover
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| | | | (...) No, actually. I read the rules of the contest and the T&C very carefully before I sent them my e-mail of complaint. According to their rules, they claim to own the copyright on anything you submit. In my letter to them, I told them that I did (...) (24 years ago, 31-Jan-00, to lugnet.general)
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