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I am going to Copy and Paste and email he sent me, my reply, and then his reply. I will edit it out for the younger viwers because he decided to use language not appropriate. MLADEN'S ORIGINAL EMAIL (...) Here is my reply email. (...) And finally, (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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You're not going to get Mladen to cool down - he flies off the handle quite easily. I'm not going to waste my time trying to track down his physical age, but his temper tantrums put him mentally at about 5-6. He seems to think that ANYthing he (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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In lugnet.general, Rick Hallman writes: [a lot of stuff...] Dudes, you should be robbing from each other with impunity -- think of it as brainstorming mecha ideas. -- Hop-Frog (shrugging the world off his shoulders...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) That's my feeling. It's a mark of courtesy to point out everyone to whom you owe some sort of inspiration, but darned if I can remember the first person who ever used minifig legs as mecha hands (an eminently spiffy idea!), and I don't expect (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Given that their are only so many brick combination possabillities, from time to time two people are going to come up with the same solution to the same problem. As a Technic builder I feel I'd be possesive of my designs as well. Steve (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Woo-hoo! :-, It looks GOOD, Rick! Just as I had imagined it when I created the bugger. Cheers, - jsproat (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Actually, I hear its bad form to publish private email content to a public forum without the permission of the author. I did that once or twice and people got very steamed about it. -- Hop-Frog (Venom is green and so am I!) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That's interesting. I generally assume that anything I send might end up in such a forum, whether I wish it or not, so I usually try to comport myself in a way I wouldn't be embarrassed to own up to later (though my correspondents may beg to (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) AFAIK, E-mail is generally considered private. Much like other personal correspondance. Obviously it's not a very enforcable convention, but there ya go. I don't get too steamed about it, although when it happens to me (and I find out), I make (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm with Richard and James on this, one should NEVER share someone's private email without permission (I mean unless it contains a serious death threat or something). I do agree that it is safer to assume that what one says could end up in a (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Also interesting. I suppose I was working from an attitude of "I sent it to him; now it's his to do with as he chooses." Caveat Sender. (...) It's easy, if you're shameless! Dave! (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) While as a general rule I agree with this, I think there also is a time for asking what others think of a communication one has received. In this case, perhaps Rick didn't have to share the whole e-mail, but I understand his desire for (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Of course, considering the temper tantrum threat Mladen made, posting it to Lugnet probably eliminated any chance at all of Mladen getting any sympathy whatsoever. (...) -- | Tom Stangl, iPlanet Web Server Technical Support | Netscape Communications (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Good point. "Fair use" probably has a much broader than usual definition when applied to interpersonal correspondence. Snail-mail letters are made public all the time, often via media "leaks," but they're released nonetheless. I'm not sure how (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Snip snip... everyone is right. (...) Agreed. While I do understand Rick's motivation in doing what he did to try to handle the situation, it might have been better if he could have done so without directly quoting mails. (...) "keep your words (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) There he goes, fanning the flames again... 8^) Dave! (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Sorry. Everyone is right except Dave! Better? Note how I once again got his name to be at the end of the sentence, although one could argue that the exclamation point is not appropriate in this usage. The reason why is left as an exercise. :-) (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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Oh geez, not again. I suppose then that because of the standards Mladen holds others to, he should credit the creator of the internet and the creator of HTML because afterall, he uses web pages to show off his work, and that's not original. Then (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Hey... wait a minute... Should I be offended here? And furthermore, what's this "Sorry" business coming from Larry, right after never regretting anything? ;) DaveE (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) I think case law supports copyright protection for the author of a letter (and by extension e-mail). (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That's quite interesting to me--I had no prior knowledge of that. Thanks! Dave! (I just noticed that that came off as a bit sarcastic, but I didn't mean it that way!) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Really? Wow. Do you have any cites? I thought letters were more like phone calls than like authored works. (only one party to a call needs to consent to it being recorded and disseminated) I had always assumed (1) that when I sent words to (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Will I do? Here are a couple: From: (URL) recipient of e-mail is generally free to share the information in the e-mail with anyone..." "Unless the recipient has some duty of confidentiality (e.g., physician-patient, attorney-client, trade (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) ... You sure you're not thinking of Al Gore? Mark W. Yes, he can fly off the handle easily. But remember, everyone 'sounds' extremely immature when they're upset. Before you analyse Mladen based on his temperment (and those emails (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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Whoops! Guess I should have finished that last post BEFORE posting it (that's how it's SUPPOSED to work, isn't it?)! Larry's the more corrrect in this instance. E-mail confidentiality is mostly a politeness issue. Assume that "anything you say can (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Pow! Zing! Whoo-hoo! Matt (Fast becoming the 'Self-Proclaimed LUGNET King of Citing Stuff ©') (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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"A. Mark Wilburn" <mwilburn@magnetargames.com> wrote in message news:GEL01B.AM9@lugnet.com... (...) should (...) he (...) the (...) Actually I was, it was all I could do to restrain myself from taking a shot at the guy in that post too ;-) (so, (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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Thank you for posting those links, I was getting curious enough to look it up and I probably would have been browsing law for hours. Now I'll go whip together that Arachnomechatronitroid. (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) *Arachnomechatronitroid* Isn't that the instrument Lucy played at the Tropicana for that clown guy? I love that episode! Matt (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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In lugnet.general, Tim Courtney writes: ... (...) LOL. Sure, why not. I don't doubt you since we tend to think alike anyway.(Well, ok, I'm basing that solely on the fast few posts we replied to each other, and the fact we both like military jets. (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) A little further legal note: As Rick was in fact commenting on Mladen's statements, the reproduction of his entire email would most likely be construed as "fair use" by a court in the US. The idea is that in order to have a free (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Alright, I've read this entire thread, and feel that I need to comment, not that what I say will change anything, but I am compelled. In my opinion, both Rick and Mladen are wrong in what they did. Yes, Rick should not have posted the emails, even (...) (23 years ago, 7-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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<snip> Okay, I'm going to say this, as I've been feeling it for a while. I am a relative newcomer to Lugnet, but I've seen this issue come up a number of times in the past, particularly involving Mladen. Lugnet's existence is a great service to us; (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) I'm not sure I picked the most relevant part of your post, but whatever... But, I strongly disagree with this view of yours. As others have already pointed out, there are only so many ways the bricks go together -- AND it's a toy for crying (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) I disagree with this. I've seen the scorpion leg design, and it is almost identical to Mladen's. I don't think the design was outright stolen; in fact, it is very likely that Rick came across Mladen's design at some point, and it worked its (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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Rick seems to be contradicting himself at least on one point. He states that his Scorpion M01 Spidermech was not based off of Mladen's. (...) But, in an earlier post (announcing the creation of his Scorpion M01 Spidermech) he acknowledged to Mladen (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) So are you saying then that each of us must do a search of all the creations we've looked at to make sure we properly credit any ideas we might have subconsciously used? If we expect that level of search for prior art, we won't be seeing very (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Yeah, and Duchamp can hang a urinal on the wall and call it a "ready-made" or whatever too. That doesn't make it art! Funny though it may be...maybe even conceptually profound. And I think the manufacturer of the urinal might have something to (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) And you're welcome to that title! You got the chops, you earned it! You rock at digging stuff up, man... thanks! ++Lar (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) something (...) Here, here! Just discussion of ideas to give people something to think about... (...) Now, if I can only find that person who first used minifig legs as hands... (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) I don't think you need to. Most people can connect the dots. Most people by this point have formed their own impression of Mladen which he will have to work hard to overcome in future. But it's a handicap of his own making. I changed the (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Frankly, I'm quaking in my boots over here... (...) Whaddareyatryintodo!?! Out cite me? In that case, I think point 6 is relevant also. But you are right, it's for Mladin to work out now. Matt (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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"A. Mark Wilburn" wrote in message I won't be so rude as to give my opinion publicly. Thank you. Why not let's put all this behind us and get on with what's important. Leave this alone. IMO this has gone on too far. Lego is not a toy: it's a way of (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Let assume that the leg designs are all same (they are not). So what? Lego is a *toy* right? And everyone can made versions of the models that they see around, or made improvement to them or use part of it. What this gives or takes from you? (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) When I was looking at his email (firs one) and looking at the siluaritys I had noticed they looked similar but as have many people said there are only so many ways. I made that post back in march or something just to make Mladen happy. I hated (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Karim Nassar, I think. But how can we ever be sure of that? Huh? This was my point, if anybody chose to see. Selçuk (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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I gave up on flames a while ago, but Rick...very poor form posting a private email publicly. Attack Mladen all you want. Disagree with him all you want. But posting his email was just plain old poor form. Bryce (...) (23 years ago, 8-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) The wise man would write the angry email, get it off his chest, then delete the angry email unsent. Or not write it at all, but wait until he's calmed down before writing. That said, I admit that I myself sometimes fall short of wisdom. :-) (23 years ago, 10-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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(...) Hm. Did Campbell's ever have any public comment on Andy Warhol's work? (Not contradicting, just asking for information in case anyone knows.) That's probably the highest profile example of an artist using someone else's trademarked work. Of (...) (23 years ago, 10-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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One thing that always comes to my mind when I think about Wisdom... Wisdom has 2 parts Having a lot to say and knowing what NOT to say. Just thought I'd toss this out there! Tamy (...) (23 years ago, 12-Jun-01, to lugnet.general)
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