 | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | (...) Sure, I'd help. But *practically* <grin> how would it fit in? Would there be a 'Non-Lego' main section of the site as in (URL) Because it can't go under /download/updates/ - that's saved for official L-CAD [1] parts updates. I don't think it (...) (25 years ago, 24-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Jacob Sparre Andersen
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| | | | | [ FUT lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw and lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands ] Tim (citing Jacob): (...) Correct. (...) If somebody wants to do the work, it is worth the work. Play well, Jacob ---...--- -- E-mail: sparre@cats.nbi.dk -- -- Web...: <URL:(URL) -- (...) (25 years ago, 24-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | (...) Hmm.. Maybe I could reduce the controversy and hassle if I just put together a site of my own (Geocites and Xoom are free, right?) and put any pertinent clone info there instead of taking up space on one of the more official sites. If I were (...) (25 years ago, 24-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Jacob Sparre Andersen
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| | | | | | | [ FUT lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw and lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands. This does not (imo) belong in lugnet.cad.dev, so please stop cross-posting to that group. ] Dave Schuler: (...) That would certainly be a possibility, but if you accept to use the (...) (25 years ago, 24-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | (...) I agree. Happy Thanksgiving! -Tim (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 You know what you'll never see?? A fat Chinese man with flaming red hair running full speed while taking a crap. -Tom Ace (25 years ago, 25-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | (...) Sure would. (...) You're probably more right than I am here. Afterall, it promotes LDraw, and the point of ldraw.org is a centralized resource. Not allowing non-Lego LDraw models on the site would be contradicting that charter and encouraging (...) (25 years ago, 24-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | (...) That's what I was thinking. It would actually be kinda cool to have various files for different brands. A "Tyco Parts Pack" and a "Coco Brick Parts Pack", and etc. -- Steve I've always wondered how well K'nex would work in LDraw. (25 years ago, 25-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | (...) It would make sense to package the clone parts together by brand. (...) Good thought. It probably wound work quite well, just like Lego. My remaining opinion is - try to stay with the original intention of LDraw, and lets not let it be (...) (25 years ago, 25-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Bram Lambrecht
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| | | | | | | (...) It would probably work well in the renderers, but you would need to create a new editor (LEdit type program) optimized for K'Nex pieces instead of LEGO pieces... You would probably have to use a smaller scale, too, because K'nex constructions (...) (25 years ago, 25-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Jeremy Sproat
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| | | | | | | | (...) One of MLCAD's great strengths is that is allows you to alter the units used in its three scales. They only default to Lego sizes. Cheers, - jsproat (25 years ago, 30-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | (...) Good observations. A program optimized for K'Nex and a K'Nex parts library would benefit the fans of K'Nex, but again, LDraw should focus on Lego brand products. If the ldraw.org /non-lego/ section *is* added, how much exposure should such a (...) (25 years ago, 25-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw)
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| | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | (...) Reading the (URL) page, I always thought it was just assumed (in the "commonly understood" sense) that the purpose of ldraw.org was to unify LDraw things that were specifically LEGO-related (i.e., not for non-LEGO stuff). But maybe that's just (...) (25 years ago, 25-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | (...) I read that page and I don't recall 'Lego' being mentioned once. But your interpretation is correct. (...) The 'Centralized LDraw Resources' is, but the meaning behind it is subject to change. (...) Ewww! Ewww! Ewww! Ewww! Ewww! You've proven (...) (25 years ago, 26-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | I am pretty purist myself and can't see using clones or modeling with them (except in trains if some clone comes along and delivers what most trainheads want at acceptable quality levels), but I repeat my thesis: Why be exclusionary? What's wrong (...) (25 years ago, 26-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Jeremy Sproat
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| | | | | | (...) I hate to reply just to insert a "me too", but I whole-heartedly agree. And folks (I won't name names) second-guessing James' prejudices without actually having *met* him exhibits more than a fair amount of arrogance, IMHO. The way I (...) (25 years ago, 26-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | (...) Personally, I wouldn't care one way or the other *intrinsically* if ldraw.org decided to host off-brand elements... What I (personally) would be very sad to see is LEGO stuff being *mixed* with off-brand stuff. That's what I meant by going the (...) (25 years ago, 26-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I've been trying to keep a low profile on this thread after having stirred the pot at the beginning, but now that I think of it, I have a few pseudo- philosophical questions. There've been myriad discussions of the merits and shortcomings of (...) (25 years ago, 26-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) I haven't thought about this much and I can only speak for myself, but when I see water or skies or starry backgrounds, or fire or smoke or sand or anything like that, to me it's just "background stuff" to round out the image -- just as LEGO (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) OK, here's an analogy... Hopefully this will illustrate the purist's point of view and why it's not arbitrary... You go into a restaurant and order big fat juicy third-pound burger with all the fixings, a side of french fries, and a big tall (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | | | | | First of all, no one is trying to "pass" any clones as being the real thing. (...) Second, Tyco is NOT "crummy", it's just different. I don't use it but I think you're letting your emotions get in when you toss around "crummy". Tyco made blocks that (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Disagree. I remember trying it out Tyco in 1988 and it left a very bitter taste in my mouth -- blyecch -- and at the time I wasn't even a LEGO purist. True, Tyco was the best of the non-LEGO off-brands, but the quality still never quite lived (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Steve Bliss
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I'd say, brickwise, Tyco's biggest problem is they didn't round off the edges of the bricks. You thought it hurt to step on *LEGO* bricks? Those Tyco pieces were doubly painful. Also, the lack of rounding made it hard to pry the pieces apart. (...) (25 years ago, 29-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Aha! I don't remember that pain, but that sounds about right! That would certainly explain why that double-tube plate made parts connected to it so difficult to pull apart! :-( --Todd [followups to lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands] (25 years ago, 29-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) You're making me hungry, Todd. :) Good analogy. -Tim (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 If you don't believe in Gosh, you'll go to Heck, where you'll face eternal darnation. (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —John VanZwieten
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| | | | | | | | | | Dave Schuler <orrex@excite.com> wrote in message news:FLtn2z.KB3@lugnet.com... (...) or (...) be (...) with (...) stirred (...) clones, (...) to (...) to (...) clear (...) If (...) that: (...) clone- (...) the (...) shouldn't (...) of (...) (...) (25 years ago, 29-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) It's funny you should mention that; I had the same thought once I'd downloaded the latest version of L3P and started messing around with the quality settings. If I were to use a CSTUD.DAT file, what would have to be different about it for L3P (...) (25 years ago, 29-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | (...) Dave, remember you're not the problem. You're just the person to bring up an issue that needs to be discussed and worked out for the future of LDraw and ldraw.org. Opinions welcome :) (...) Its good that you're agreeing about the official (...) (25 years ago, 26-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | | (...) C'mon, Tim! I'm trying to play the persecuted martyr here, and you're not letting me! 8^) Dave! (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | | (...) LOL :) Here we go, Dave. Set up your web page with your clone libraries on it and let me know the URL. I'll link to it from the ldraw.org links page. -Tim (URL) timcourtne ICQ: 23951114 If you don't believe in Gosh, you'll go to Heck, where (...) (25 years ago, 28-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) I'm not especially code-savvy, but I'll try to put something together without embarrassing myself! I'll mail you the link when I have something to show you. Thanks, Dave! (25 years ago, 29-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | (...) As of this point, I don't think ldraw.org should *host* clone parts packs, but it wouldn't do any harm to link to them off-site. IMASO the site should continue to promote Lego brand parts and editors which use the LDraw format, and not push (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | (...) I see what you're saying, but I think you're misunderstanding excluding 'parts' for 'people.' This isn't intended to exclude individuals from the group at Lugnet or from using ldraw.org. Its to keep the Lego brand aspect of LDraw and Lugnet (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | (...) Oh, I know you do, now. But I don't think Todd does (or maybe I'm not reading him right) and I think he's got a fair chance of changing your mind. (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | (...) I'm not against hosting imitation brand parts or libraries on ldraw.org, since LDraw's file format doesn't have any sort of LEGO-brand requirement. I'd *personally* be somewhat bothered to see non-LEGO stuff there, but I also think that it (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | Off topic question Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Jeff Thompson
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Do people model parts that don't exist in the LEGO universe? i.e. Plates with studs on both top and bottom, or bricks otherwise shaped in ways that have no real-world analogs? Just curious - I've glued plates together to get exactly that (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Off topic question Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tore Eriksson
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| | | | | | | | | | | I'm not sure I understand your question perfectly, but I can use clones for two purposes: 1. A cool colour or shape that TLG does not supply. 2. Hacking! Building in micro-switches, making cable tunnels and such things. But I am a Lego purist in (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Off topic question Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Roy Earls
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| | | | | | | | | | Nephilim <jthompson@esker.com> wrote in message news:FLv94v.I82@lugnet.com... (...) I've done the same in the past. As I see it, the thoughts of the community can be broken down in the following ways: (1) The purists hate the idea of any non-LEGO (...) (25 years ago, 2-Dec-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Off topic question Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | | (...) Why not invert a plate in LDraw and group them together, use it as a submodel? You don't need to model something like what you described. But to answer the question, I don't know. Some people modify pieces by cutting them and such, would they (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Off topic question Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Thomas Burger
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| | | | | | | | (...) yes i did it once.modified part 4864. cut it in half length wize, and used it as a indycar spoiler wing seen at < www.geocities.com/tb...talia2.gif > (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | (...) Yeah, it is a very tricky subject, and could easily go either way IMO. (...) Naw, extreme is like no BURPs, CRAPPs, Town Jr. Pieces (that's not all wrong), even minifigs, like the Lego Purists' Pages. (...) Yeah. You could even go so far as to (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Todd Lehman
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| | | | | | | (...) Legal calamities aside, wouldn't it be cool if each clone or construction system could have its own subdomain of ldraw.org? (6 URLs) would solve all the issues perfectly. --Todd (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | | Tim Courtney skrev i meddelandet <4.2.0.58.1999112701...mm.com>... (...) [And many has said many things in this thread...] I think you are all a bit over-reacting! Of course www.ldraw.org should _mainly_ cover the LEGO use of LDRAW, as that's what (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | (...) Theoretically it would. I'm still holding on to the notion that (URL) should remain Lego-pure and the Lego aspect of it should not be shoved aside. Also, I wouldn't want to do all the work for each of the other sites, there would be a (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | | | | (...) Which leads to another question. If you make a model with Lego bricks mixed with Byggis [1], how will the model be identified as such, and how will the individual clone pieces be identified as such? Obviously someone with a Lego-only (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Anders Isaksson
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| | | | | | Tim Courtney skrev i meddelandet <4.2.0.58.1999112708...mm.com>... (...) models. (...) used (...) of (...) Well, I never said anything about making the models public in .dat-format, did I? I said _documenting_ my own work (or my kid's). (...) I (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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| | | | | | Re: Clone DATs--any interest? —Tim Courtney
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| | | | (...) Yeah, a lot of things can change my mind on this :) I think we've discussed it enough for me to see the middle point and plant my feet down. Larry, you're right to an extent. I can't let my personal disgust towards non-Lego parts get in the (...) (25 years ago, 27-Nov-99, to lugnet.cad.dev.org.ldraw, lugnet.off-topic.clone-brands, lugnet.cad.dev)
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