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In lugnet.admin.general, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> In lugnet.admin.general, David Koudys writes:
> > In lugnet.admin.general, Larry Pieniazek writes:
> > > In lugnet.admin.general, Richard Morton writes:
> > > > Come on Lar,
> > > > I think we can all see the difference between posting a message saying XX
> > > > parts now in my brinklink store, and a link to an image that shows a
> > > > valuable building technique which also states in the image (and not in the
> > > > original posting) that the parts are available at his bricklink store.
> > > >
> > > > It's just like making a posting about something, which as part of my
> > > > signature block has a link to my Lego website, which in turn has a link to
> > > > my bricklink store.
> > >
> > > Which is why the original post, which had on topic aspects, got merely a
> > > ribbing. I whould have hoped that Bram was enough of a thought leader to
> > > connect the dots (where his purely market relatd followup should go) without
> > > an explicit warning.
> > >
> > > It was the followup, which had NO .trains related content, and which should
> > > have been posted to ONLY the market groups, that got gentle guidance. At
> > > THAT point Bram mischaracterised it as "yelling" which was a signal to me
> > > that guidance wasn't working, so I shuffled it up, not wanting to brawl in
> > > .trains which is a busy group nowadays.
> > >
> > > If all of you saying that the entire thread was fine really think that, then
> > > perhaps any market related advertising whatever is OK as long as one can
> > > trace the append chain back to an on topic post.
> >
> > Nope, that's not what anyone is saying. There would have been a point
> > reached where, had the replies continued, it should have been moved to
> > wherever else if it had nothing to do with trains.
>
> That point is the first purely market oriented post. Even if it's a direct
> reply or followup to a post... Bram's followup to his original post was
> market related, pure and simple, and nothing else.
>
> > Well, I've gone off enuf this time, and I'm quite confident that this issue
> > is now resolved to the betterment of LUGNET in general.
>
> I'm not. I saw a lot of whinging by you but no resolution or constructive
> suggestions.
>
> > Dave
There is a time, in everyone's life, where your rules for governing your own
life come back and bite you in the heinie.
My thick skin aside...
Bram didn't start this ruckus.
Quoteth Larry
"
> I'm not. I saw a lot of whinging by you but no resolution or constructive
> suggestions.
"
Constructive suggestion #1, from the above post:
"
> > Nope, that's not what anyone is saying. There would have been a point
> > reached where, had the replies continued, it should have been moved to
> > wherever else if it had nothing to do with trains.
"
Disagreeing with my polite (albeit banterish ;) ) suggestions to rethink
your position on this matter does not negate them. Nor does your
unappreciating my points make them "whining".
Constructive suggestion #2, from previous post in this thread
"
So the issue didn't happen until you, Larry, made it an issue. This is not
laying the smakdown, just making an observation, imho.
"
(read: don't escalate a problem unless it's a legitimate problem)
Edifying post for Larry, appreciating the polite response
"
Larry phrased a very polite and sincere post saying that in his opinion (as
well as some others) that Brams sold-out post should be only in buy/sell...
I do not agree, but I concede to those that are 'in the know' i.e.
responsible for the newsgroup.
"
Constructive suggestion #3, following edifying remark from previous post
"
If the discussion ensued beyond this point, then get it to .admin.general
and bug the admins. Up until this point there was little to get your
knickers in a knot over.
"
You might not appreciate the truth of the situation, but, as jms would say,
at least the truth is out there where it needs to be. I say take it or
leave it, as for me, I'll take the truth.
quoteth Scott A (quoting TC)
"
Be careful, as TC would say: "If I'm doing my duty and respectfully guide
someone on something they post, and THEY or THEIR COHORTS cause a ruckus, oh
well. That's THEIR problem (and that problem will be corrected too). There
should be little room for that."
"
Who caused the ruckus? As if that matters, pointing fingers gets nothing
done. Name calling doesn't work better, either, but some like to do that.
See what the ruckus is about and do something about it, that's the good
bit--that's where we should put our efforts.
Sometimes a person is too close to a situation to see a bigger picture.
Slippery slope arguements don't work for there is a line. One of my points,
specifically pertaining to this situation foremost, was that the line to
bump this to .admin was drawn way too early. Brams post about the portholes
being all gone was his last for that thread, until Larry bumped it to a
bigger venue.
I meant my posts (as I do for most of the stuff I post) to be light hearted,
fun, respectful but above all, constructive in pointing out that mayhaps
there's a different way of looking at this situation, one that isn't so
close--a bigger picture.
Quoteth Larry
"
> That point is the first purely market oriented post. Even if it's a direct
> reply or followup to a post... Bram's followup to his original post was
> market related, pure and simple, and nothing else.
"
K, I've said before, I concede this point. I personally don't agree, like
the 'thanks' bit I mentioned earlier, it has nothing to do with the group,
but is nice info. But if others don't appreciate that, then that's okay,
you are the moderator, and there are trainees out there. Your idea of what
is appropriate or not for your group is not my 'big issue' point.
"Hey Bram, that was inappropriate"
Polite, which is what you did first, Larry, and I mentioned, and will do so
again, it was polite, and there was nothing wrong with that post.
"Oh, I thought you would notice that, Larry, but here is why I did it."
Which, again to me, was not provoking, or a problem.
It's the immediate response "Oh you're not listening to me so let's get this
to .admin"
That is Community Policing. It's heavy handed, it is small picture, it is
not what rational adults who know how to communicate in a family revert to.
I hate ending a line in a preposition but I'm no longer an english major.
Final quoteth Larry
"
Which is why the original post, which had on topic aspects, got merely a
ribbing. I whould have hoped that Bram was enough of a thought leader to
connect the dots (where his purely market relatd followup should go) without
an explicit warning.
"
I hope you can connect the dots and see what I'm saying Larry. I don't want
to connect the dots for you, either, for you seem to be an intelligent
person with much passion for the building system we all know and love. Just
step back once in a while and look at a bigger picture is what I'm
suggesting here.
Dave
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Porthole alternative
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| (...) That point is the first purely market oriented post. Even if it's a direct reply or followup to a post... Bram's followup to his original post was market related, pure and simple, and nothing else. (...) I'm not. I saw a lot of whinging by you (...) (22 years ago, 28-Feb-02, to lugnet.admin.general)
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