 | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Christopher Tracey
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| | | (...) Yeah, but their consverations in the pod racer hanger seem to show that they are getting to know one another... It will be interesting to see how they meet up again. -Chris (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) I'm not entirely comfortable having C3PO built by Darth Vader; it seems a little too contrived, even for Lucas. On a more universe-specific note, didn't 3PO in one of the myriad books indicate that he'd never had him memory wiped? If so, it (...) (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Chris Maddison
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| | | | | (...) didn't (...) IV, (...) But, you must remember that the ONLY thing that holds water when it comes to the SW movies is the movies themselves. Books mean nothing, and nothing in them should be accepted as fact. -Chris (24 years ago, 31-May-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Scott P. Costello
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| | | | | | | (...) This anti-expanded universe attitude does not hold much water. Every book ever written in the Star Wars universe must first pass through several "continuity editors." These guys work directly for Lucasarts to ensure that no authorized (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Mark Sandlin
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| | | | | | | | | I think what he was trying to say, is that the official policy of Lucasfilm is that the movies are the only true Canon, and that if Lucas puts something into a SW movie, then that is the SW "truth" even if it contradicts something from a book. ~Mark (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Adam Murtha
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| | | | | | | | | | Are there any known contradictions in the SW universe between books and the movies or whatever other sources there are? Adam (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Well, apparently, the entire "Droids" cartoon series, which purports to take place before Episode IV. Episode I makes it a little impossible. It does have the first mention of Pod Racing, though. And, if memory serves, Malastare. eric (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Adam Murtha
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| | | | | | | | | | What makes you think that? I don't think anyone could say that without knowing what happens in Episode III. Adam (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Droids claims to be the adventures of Threepio and Artoo well, well before Episode IV. The problem is that Episode I takes place too soon before Episode IV (Not to mention that we know a lot of time is skipped between I and II) to allow the (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Chris Maddison
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Scott, I agree with you. I was just saying that George Lucas alone writes the SW movies, and the ONLY thing he absolutely has to adhere to is his own writings, the other movies. He can incorporate and twist ideas from numerous other sources, (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | (...) Err. No? The only things that are canon (one N) besides the movies are the Heir to the Empire trilogy and Shadows of the Empire. eric (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | | | | | (...) Alright to put this whole thing to rest... If you lurk on alt.startrek.vs.starwars long enough you will be forced to learn this. Lucasfilm's offical order of canon (in the event of a contradiction the highest source takes priority) is as (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Oh, I know. Likewise, I'll believe the Vader-in-the-volcano bit when I see it. For that matter, I've never read more than a few pages of any of the books, other than a few West End Games odds-n-ends. Still, it strikes me as hokey that Anakin (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Well, what do you know! I first heard that Vader-in-the-lava story some time in 1980 and shortly after seeing Empire. It was apocryphal then, but... Dave! (20 years ago, 21-May-05, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Bryan Hodges
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| | | | | While it is entirely possible that C3PO did indicate in one of the books that he'd never had his memory wiped, you've got to remember that Lucas is not bound by the books. Anyone that writes a Star Wars book is simply writing a modification to (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) So if I want to juice up my Forcability, do I run to the doctor for a quick shot of midichlorians? Quantifying the accessibility of the Force in any way by definition strips it of some of its mysticism, much like saying that someone is more (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Jeff Johnston
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| | | | | | | | (...) That depends. If you want to "juice up" the efficiency of turning food into energy, do you go to your doctor for a quick shot of mitochondria? No? If you want to be smarter, can you just put some neurons in a syringe and launch them into your (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) **snip** (...) I was making a rhetorical point, rather than giving a precise suggestion of how to get Forceful. (...) If you're speaking figuratively, not at all. If, as I was, you're referring to actual manna in his actual blood, then you're (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Jeff Johnston
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| | | | | | | | (...) It's one I've heard over and over as showing "how stupid midichlorians are" without the people saying it ever realizing how stupid their "counterargument" sounds. If you mean you preferred the force as a wholly mystical rather than as a (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Nicholas Sim
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| | | | | | | | (...) I would rather think that the Jedi potential has what is in him already to attract midichlorians, rather than the midi stuff being born in his blood. The "scientific explanation" for the force is probably to placate young new viewers who think (...) (24 years ago, 6-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yes, because the number of kids who watch the evolving monsters of Pokemon and read Harry Potter show that today's youth have a hard time swallowing anything magical. eric (24 years ago, 6-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Jeff Johnston
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| | | | | | | (...) What I remember is that 3P0 and R2 developed their "personality quirks" because they didn't get regular memory wipes. But anyway, if 3P0 *did* get a memory wipe...how would he know, unless someone told him? It's entirely possible for both to (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Adam Murtha
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| | | | | | I think the midichlorians still do have a 'mysterious' quality to them. Remember in Episode I when Qui-Gon asked Shmi about Anakin's father, and she replied "There was no father...I carried him..." etc. Which means either the midichlorians (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —James Simpson
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| | | | (...) Good Point. The fact that Threepio was built by Anakin gives me some plot- jitters. Why, for example, did Vader not recognize R2 & C3PO when in ANH when everyone was rushing across the docking bay floor to make it to the Falcon (when Vader (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | (...) How about because Threepio looks like every other protocol droid of the same make and model in the Star Wars universe? There was one on Bespin, there was one on the Nemoidian ship at the very beginning of TPM... Droids are just another (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —James Simpson
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| | | | | | (...) Ok. I concede that point. It does seem strange to me that neither Vader nor Obi Wan seem to register their prior acquaintance with the droids, but I know that it can be argued that Obi Wan realized that his old acquaintances had come full (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | (...) Hmm. Vader I'm not so surprised about.. he doesn't exactly sit down and chat with Threepio or Artoo at any point. Obi Wan... well, Artoo claims to belong to Obi Wan, and all Obi Wan says is "I don't remember owning any droids". It's very (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Adam Murtha
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| | | | | | I agree that even though he Obi-Wan doesn't come out and say he knows the droids, doesn't he say something like "Come here little friend" to R2D2 when he is hiding in the rocks on Tatooine after the Sand People attack Luke in ANH. Adam (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —James Simpson
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| | | | | | (...) Lucas seems to be making things up as he goes along. I wouldn't attribute that comment to any story continuity that is now revealing itself. I think that it was just Obi Wan being a nice old gentleman. (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Damian Garcia
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| | | | | | | "James Simpson" <jsimpson@rice.edu> wrote in message news:FvHsIr.AAL@lugnet.com... (...) when (...) in ANH. (...) that (...) that it (...) Another thing to look at is, if I remember correctly, Obi Wan never really got close to R2 in EPI. When in (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Bryan Hodges
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| | | | | | (...) that (...) I definately agree. When Lucas was making ANH he had no idea that it was going to take off like it did. Since he didn't know whether he would have the funds to make the rest of the trilogy or not, I'm sure there were things that (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | (...) Major time disagree with you: (URL) here for details. -Lord Insanity (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | (...) Yeah, but that's not really all too subtle. Besides which, the saber fighting in Episode IV reflects the lower production costs and technical sophistication of the 70's. I flatly disbelieve the "old men" excuse; if "size matters not," I don't (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —James Simpson
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| | | | (...) If 20-25+ years ago George Lucas planned to offer his audience modest lightsaber battles (in ANH & TESB), so that he could wow his future fans (the same fans that he was sure would in fact be hooked) with a phenomenal lightsaber battles in his (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Erik Olson
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| | | | (...) I too don't but the "awesome powers of foresight" explanations. I may not think much of Lucas as a writer, but he is one. Part of creativity is re-interpreting your own work. Especially when you have to work yourself out of a plot jam. When (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | (...) I didn't say that he planned it that far in advance, nor do I beleive that. I was merely repeating what Lucas said. I *do* think it was a bit of a retcon. I do like it because it lets him have more exciting lightsaber battles now. (...) Err, (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Erik Olson
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| | | | | | | (...) I said I'd never seen any statement to that effect--from an official source like Lucas or Kurtz talking about the early story (and I've seen a few of those types of interviews.) Besides, Obi-wan made everybody think otherwise, and that's the (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | | (...) I've seen and read several interviews with Lucas where he says that the original trilogy was written as one story (there was only one Death Star, though). Obi-Wan has his own reasons for lying to Luke. They should be obvious, if you think (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Bryan Hodges
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| | | | | | | | I just want to state that based on Obi-Wan's reaction when Luke asks him how his father died that we can assume that Lucas always intended Vader to be Luke's father. He kind of has that "searching-for-an-explanation" look on his face. Obi-Wan KNOWS (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | | (...) I am not so sure about this. The flirtation between Luke and his sister, them looks ill-advised... given that SW was a kid's film. Scott A (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Eric Joslin
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| | | | | | | | (...) his (...) The sister thing *was* thrown in. Between Episode IV and Episode V being filmed, Mark Hamill was in a motorcycle accident. Besides necessitating the addition of the Wampa scenes (to explain the new scars, and the change in his face (...) (24 years ago, 4-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | | | (...) I don't understand how people don't see this. Watch all 4 movies in "chronological" order. No one realized it before ep. 1 but it seems glaringly obvious to me that the choreography supported the theory of old men and a young inexperienced (...) (24 years ago, 3-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Jeff Jardine
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| | | | Just a bunch of disjointed thoughts about this thread: C3P0 in TPM - I thought it was hokey and severely contrived that Anakin built him. If it was necessary to introduce C3P0 in this movie, I think it should have been in a more reasonable way. C3P0 (...) (24 years ago, 1-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Selçuk Göre
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| | | | (...) Jaba The Hutt of the first film, (the original one, not the retouched, effect rich newer editions) was also a humanoid. See the reference multimedia CD title from Lucas Arts, "Behind the Magic" for an interview with Lucas, about how they (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | (...) Perhaps I saw oddly edited versions prior to '97, but I don't recall seeing Jabba onscreen at all! Dave! (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Scott Arthur
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| | | | | | | (...) You're right. That scene ended up on the cutting room floor, it was then resurrected in re-mastered versions. The human actor was covered with the overgrown slug we know & love - not a very good scene anyway in my opinion. Scott a (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yeah! And it would have been better if Jabba didn't very nearly duplicate Greedo's dialogue from the previous scene! Dave! (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Scott Edward Sanburn
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| | | | | | (...) snarling (...) it. (...) seeing (...) Well, in the special edition of A New Hope, when they showed how the film was made, the Jabba scene, before Luke and Ben came on the ship, Han was talking to Jabba, who was a fat human, but never was (...) (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | | | | | Re: Another one of those 'what's wrong with TPM' posts —Bryan Hodges
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| | | | (...) You can also see part of the scene with the original actor on the "From Star Wars to Jedi" video... it's a great video, IMO as entertaining to watch as any of the films. -Bryan (24 years ago, 2-Jun-00, to lugnet.starwars)
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