 | | an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jonathan Wilson
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| | | Or, provide suggestions on how to do it? I saw Wild Wild West the other day and was looking at the giant spider robot and wondered if making such a "sipder" robot is possible with lego robotics? Would it be possible? Has anyone done it? Does anyone (...) (21 years ago, 1-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Steve Baker
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| | | | | (...) Plenty of people have build eight legged walkers - that's not all that hard. However, the machine in WWW is supposedly very flexible and could climb near vertical cliff-faces, etc. You'd need at least two or three motors per leg to get that (...) (21 years ago, 1-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | (...) That's one approach, probably the wrong one considering the limitations of the RCX. Instead of trying to solve your problems with the RCX why not take the approach of the original; pullies, gears, differentials, gear trains, etc. As I made (...) (21 years ago, 1-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | (...) I'd recommend pneumatics instead of large number of RCX's. Kevin (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Paul Kleniewski
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| | | | | | "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Hp8uqD.8yM@lugnet.com... (...) but pneumatics gives you just automation you dont have "adaptation" i can imagine sensor-like pneumatic valve configuration but it would be much more (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | (...) My Quad242 has the ability to walk forward and backward, as well as turn right or left. Currently pneumatic switches, acting as pneumatic polarity reversors, need to be manually flipped to change from behavior to behavior. These behavior (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Philippe Hurbain
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| | | | | | | | | (...) Much lighter than 1 RCX per leg !!! (...) I guess the third output should control the Walk/Don't Walk function, perhaps directly driving compressor motor? Philo (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Ahh, yes. Not walking is an important part of the behavior :^) I'll probably have the third output control a pole reversor switch. Battery power -> pole reversor -> RC racer motor (or two?) -> pumps. I want a powerful compressor. (...) Kevin (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Use a watchdog timer instead, if you want to stop don't send any outputs. Once the timer trips the bot stops. You still get your third sensor, you'll need it for a bump switch, otherwise you won't know when to turn/back-up. Each output is (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Paul Kleniewski
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| | | | | | | | | | | i'm sorry to all about using this forum to resolve private issues but i have to say one word to jim what is going on with you? if you want to get me down - do it here on the group!!! send you really smart and wise posts on the group!!! if you want (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Nothing, you asked a question and I explained the situation. (...) I have no interest in your mental state. (...) I've actually sent you nothing I didn't CC to the group as far as I'm aware. (...) -technical- toys. (...) You asked a question, (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Just checked, yep. Not counting this one I sent three responses to -your- request for input on your project. -ALL- of them went to the list. Me thinks he protest too much. -- -- Open Forge, LLC 24/365 Onsite Support for PCs, Networks, & Game (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Paul Kleniewski
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| | | | | | | | | | | | i regret i wrote my previous post here it will never happend again jim plays unfair but this is not proper forum to talk about that sorry to all eot !!! pixel (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) What if we assume that each output drives a motor, through a differential which drives a pneumatic switch and a compressor. The compressor does not care which rotational direction it is driven, but the switch does. When we are mostly up to (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Bad assumption but it would work, the RCX is too limited on I/O to be doing that sort of stuff except in the case of simple rollers/walker. Since legs have symmetry it's silly not to take advantage of it here, you've got to use it to keep the (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) I guess we're talking different things here. You were telling me to use all three motor/sensors. I claim I only need two for my Quad242. I have to see WWW to know what you are talking about I guess, or else you lost me. Static balance requires (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) I agree. (...) Sorry, I made -no- statement about your Qaud242. Build it however you like. You expanded the scope of my comment from general legged walker design to something specific, where it wasn't intended to go. I was talking strictly (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Well I was restricting the discussion to modifying my Quad242. I think you are talking about something else. I think you were proposing using all three inputs and outputs to run the motors and control switches. I was proposing using less of (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) Symmetry is when something 'balances', it's a kind of equilibrium. Let's look at a six legged walker for a moment and see what sort of symmetry it has. First off we have six legs and many of them (at least three in the right location) must (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) True. (...) I was just picking on you since you've spent your day publicly humiliating people (dripping with sarcasm :^) I have plenty of silly and/or stupid ideas..... Some of them lead to really great ideas. (...) No doubt. Flaws are a (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) There's no fault involved from my perspective. The idea is to have fun. You can't do that without some sort of risk (at least I've never experienced 'fun' without some risk). The problem comes when people mix emotion/ego with curiosity. Very (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Bump switches and "aggression" —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | I mentioned a 'reference platform' for the H18 group I've been working on in a previous post, and I'm curious if anyone will share their views on how they view bump switches and 'behavior'. I'm not interested in a debate but rather a 'collection'. (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Steve Hassenplug
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) How exactly, do you want to trigger this 'fight or flight'? It seems to me that a rabbit (for example) would use both of the methods above. If it's running along, and it's nose smacks into a tree (I mean bumps into a tree) the behavior is very (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Easy the bump switch jumps into a RNG, and it's important to understand that the output of a RNG does -not- need to be equi-probable, and it decides. Watch animals when they're startled, they don't stop and think, they jump around for a second (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Gordon Elliott
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| | | | | | | | | | ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Choate" <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> To: <lego-robotics@crynwr.com> ... (...) think (...) ### I think this is an interesting question, relating to complexity and emergent and evolutionary behavior which has been (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) You should watch my three dogs hunt. If all you've ever seen is a single dog hunt then you know nothing of how dogs actually hunt. They're pack animals, a single dog can't survive in the wild more than a few weeks. Yet three sub-200lb dogs can (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Gordon Elliott
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| | | | | | | | | | | ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Choate" <ravage@einstein.ssz.com> (...) was (...) ## The original request was to catalog opinions on bump sensors, a "state of the art". Remember the original question was: ** ... and I'm curious if anyone (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Paul Kleniewski
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| | | | | | | | | | | | "Gordon Elliott" <lego-robotics@crynwr.com> wrote in message news:0f7901c3b9c8$84...gateway... (...) i can see jim's doing good job !!! he's humiliating almost everyone here keep doing jim!!! maybe you will achieve that your posts will go to null (...) (21 years ago, 4-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | RE: Bump switches and "aggression" —Russell C. Brown [RR-1]
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Just set the threshold on your pretentiometer to 50% and you won't hear that traffic anymore! Seriously, Pixel, you have been a cheerful contributor to this list for a couple of years now. You've had creative ideas that you've been most willing to (...) (21 years ago, 5-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Paul Kleniewski
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| | | | | | | | | | | | "Russell C. Brown [RR-1]" <lego-robotics@crynwr.com> wrote in message news:001601c3baeb$9a...apophis... (...) ok :) you are right i was too touchy sorry the threshold's set no problem some of you guys said many great words to me that is precious! (...) (21 years ago, 5-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | | (...) <snip> (...) <snip> I'm very new to this particular thread, but I like Gordon's approach--directional sensors are needed. If I'm travelling forward and something bumps me from behind, I need to know that--If my conditional response is to do (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Rob Hendrix
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) go (...) 'bumper'. (...) my (...) me, (...) alternative. (...) There is one solution for staying 100% Lego and putting 4 sensors on the same RCX input. Therefor you should be able to sense which direction you were getting bumped. Lego made (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Oh I wish I had some of those touch sensors! One person from rtlToronto has a set and there is much envy from me to him. Right now I'm using lamp bricks, which isn't that great, really, but does work :) Thanks for the heads-up! Dave K (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | | | | | | | (...) Actually you don't, you want a different level of sensors to evaluate the environment (eg ir object sensors). You're just complicating your design by putting too many functions on each layer of sensors. For example, something bumps you from (...) (21 years ago, 13-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Rob Limbaugh
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Finally, I think I see the point to the 360-degree-all-purpo...-sensor... I was preparing a comment about putting a bot with only one bump sensor into an empty, small (two-foot) diameter arena and wait for it to get stuck... Then I realized that it (...) (21 years ago, 15-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Øyvind Steinnes
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| | | | | | | | | | | | "Rob Limbaugh" <lego-robotics@crynwr.com> wrote in message news:004201c3c2be$0a...markera... (...) can (...) How can I attach lets say 4 switches so the make a binary code, (4switches should need only two ports). I want to have one switch on each (...) (21 years ago, 15-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Gordon Elliott
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | There was discussion of one company that made switches with analog values that could be mixed, but they were apparently either expensive or hard to find (at least there was some difficulty). But simple resistor network, say a load resistor to ground (...) (21 years ago, 16-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Steve Baker
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | For a pure Lego solution, you could try rigging up something with a rotation sensor that would have the sensor point in the direction of the collision. Suppose the rotation sensor was mounted with it's input shaft pointing up vertically - with a (...) (21 years ago, 16-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Gordon Elliott
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | By the way, there are 5 states, all switches off, and each of the 4 switches. (That does not count the combinations if more than one switch were triggered at the same time). Thus a binary solution would take three inputs, just one less than the (...) (21 years ago, 16-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —chris
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | there's probably a way to use a light sensor to sense four different colored bricks. one for each direction. = sensor red ylw blue wht / ---\ /---- different heights of 'wedges' would lift a column, as a bumper is either slid in, or the bumper (...) (21 years ago, 16-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Scott Davis
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| | | | | | | | | | | | You could attach 2 touch sensors to each port and take a look at the raw values when different combinations of the sensors are pressed. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Øyvind Steinnes" <phoenix@online.no> To: <lego-robotics@crynwr.com> Sent: (...) (21 years ago, 16-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | | | Re: Bump switches and "aggression" —Steve Baker
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| | | | | | | | | | (...) That's nonsense! You are working on the very naive assumption that nothing in the environment is moving except your robot. If your strategy is to reverse direction when the robot bumps into something in *any* direction - then things will go (...) (21 years ago, 4-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Paul Kleniewski
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| | | | | | | | "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:Hp9qnp.Cn6@lugnet.com... (...) i know what you mean but i thought about walking through obstacles in fact walking over obstacles because we were talking about WWW and the spider from (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | (...) I gotta see the movie to really appreciate what you'd like to see. (...) The foot on the obstacle is not in the air but on the ground. If you mean that one foot is on the obstacle and the other can't reach the ground, I see your point. I was (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Paul Kleniewski
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| | | | | | | | "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:HpAAsB.1Kpo@lugnet.com... (...) hmm my english is not very well so i'm explaining in weak way let's say your q242 is walking on a flat surface everything is quite well now ahead q242 (...) (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | | (...) So the pneumatic switch acts as a pneumatic touch sensor and stops the leg from extending fully. I'll keep that in mind. (...) I understand. Thanks for the explanation. (...) Kevin (21 years ago, 3-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | (...) Yes, I understand that you would have the downward pressure of the step move stop the leg movement by cutting off pressure to the piston(s) driving the foot down. Once this pressure is cut off by the switch, presumably the other legs continue (...) (21 years ago, 4-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: WWW spider —Paul Kleniewski
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| | | | | | | | "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:HpDyM3.A0z@lugnet.com... (...) yes i tried some sequensers during weekend and i'm on the way to create this functionality i hope it will work :))) (...) i think this could be done by (...) (21 years ago, 8-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: WWW spider —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | (...) Good luck! I look forward to it. (...) Hmmmmm.... I wondered if you might be thinking of this. A common method used in the past was to use a central pneumatic timer circuit that control the muscle pistons and make them move. This is what Doug (...) (21 years ago, 8-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: WWW spider —Paul Kleniewski
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| | | | | | | | hi i just developed this sequencer DL (URL) there is no purpose for this mechnism :) it shows 2 things 1. even small and simple changes in the circuit make it a little bit complicated :))) 2. it can be done :) it's just a first trial i'll work on (...) (21 years ago, 9-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: WWW spider —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | | | (...) It is a very cool mechanism. Your circuit can change from a 3 piston timer to a four piston timer, right? Kevin (21 years ago, 9-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: WWW spider —Paul Kleniewski
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| | | | | | | | yes that was my goal in this schema pixel "Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:HpMsDz.vz2@lugnet.com... (...) (21 years ago, 9-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | | (...) One of my design goals when making robots is to not use the RCX unless it is needed. I program computers and debug hardware all day at work, so I can write NQC programs in my sleep. For me it is much more of a challenge (and therefore more (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | (...) A man after my own heart ;) It seems to be the way nature works too, start simple only add complexity when a energy capture issue arises and forces an adaptive response. Most adaptions are neutral, despite the dribble they teach all the way up (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | (...) Yes (...) Not really, if you start with a hexapod and break the legs down into two groups of three (you get stability that way) you should be able to do it with two outputs (one for start/stop the other for for/rev). As an aside, and a rather (...) (21 years ago, 1-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | (...) When driving I'm sometimes not where I want to be but am rarely lost. When lost I have no problem asking directions :^) When it comes time to make complicated robots out of LEGO I'm often lost and don't like to ask directions! I know this post (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | (...) I've never been lost, I always know where I'm at if I'm awake. Right here. May not know where other things are in relation but, hey, the sun rises in the E. and sets in the W. everywhere; and I know how to read stars. :) (...) I'm often lost, (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | | (...) Please do. Thanks, Kevin (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Jim Choate
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| | | | | | (...) Done. -- -- Open Forge, LLC 24/365 Onsite Support for PCs, Networks, & Game Consoles 512-695-4126 (Austin, Tx.) help@open-forge.com irc.open-forge.com Hangar 18 Open Source Distributed Computing Using Plan 9 & Linux 512-451-7087 (URL) (...) (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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| | | | | | Re: an idea, can someone tell me if this is possible/been done before/etc? —Kevin L. Clague
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| | | | (...) Please do. Thanks, Kevin (21 years ago, 2-Dec-03, to lugnet.robotics)
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