Subject:
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Re: Taxes from Lego auctions?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Tue, 21 Dec 1999 14:10:03 GMT
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Viewed:
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590 times
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David Eaton wrote in message ...
> In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks writes:
> > > > "We live in a great country that affords us many freedoms, maybe not as
> > > > much as it used to, and maybe not as much as it should, but it would • not be
> > > > worth losing your freedom over a few bucks, and tax evasion is serious
> > > > business.
> >
> > Am I right in taking what you are saying as: "technically, you may have
> > the right to evade taxes, but you'll get in trouble and it's really much
> > easier if you just go with the flow. After all, the government slowly
> > stripping away freedoms isn't worth risking going to jail and losing all
> > your freedoms." ?
> >
> > I might disagree, if so.
>
> I think that's quite a bit more extremest than the original statement, but • in
> essense, yes. If it came down to you paying $3.50 or being put in jail for • 5 to
> 10 years, I'd hope you'd pay the $3.50, because it really ISN'T worth the
> trouble of trying to avoid it (at least not to me). When does it cross the • line
> into worthwhile? Well, we'll all have to be the judges of that • independantly.
> Is it like going with the flow and killing Jews just to go with the flow • (as
> you suggest later in your message)? Well, if losing $3.50 is worth as much • to
> you as a human life, maybe. And if you want to protest, go ahead. But I • don't
> expect you to get very far. I think most people feel that yes, they • "should"
> pay taxes, and that yes, they really do "owe" it to their country, even if • they
> don't like doing it, or think it should be less money.
While I agree to a point with you, I also agree to a point with Chris. I
don't think there are many people doing ten year snetences who could have
paid $3.50 and gotten out of it.
> Actually, I'm a little confused-- are you saying that you should want to • NOT
> pay taxes, or that you should want to for other reasons? I don't really
> understand how you disagree....
I understand his philosophy, whether I agree with it is not too
important, because of your statement above, and the fact that I don't want
to be a martyr. His point, in my words, is that it is unethical, evil,
immoral, wrong to support something that is unethical, evil, moral, wrong.
Paying taxes does just that. Of course, if one person stands up against
that, all by his loneosme, he goes to jail, so its a kinda stupid thing to
do (unless you like those type of accomodations).
> > > If
> > > > you make money off of your dealings of buying and selling on the • internet,
> > > > under our current system you owe taxes on your profits(income) from • these
> >
> > I wouldn't call it owe...that somehow implies that it's a debt to which
> > I'd agreed. I'd say that under our current system, some thugs with
> > really big guns will come by and take a cut as part of their protection
> > racket.
>
> Ahhh... so it sounds now like you think people should want NOT to pay • taxes...
> although I could be mistaken. But at least you sound like you're putting • some
> rather extreme negative connitations on the government.
Well, first of all, there is, perhaps, a legal way not to pay (in
someone's words, owe) taxes on such "income". Secondly his point about
using the word "owe" is valid. He should move, because he lives in the US
government's domain, and has in a sense made a contract to abide by its
laws, which he claims are unfair. If he doesn't feel he can accept that
contract, then he should be gone. Or he could effect what you think he
thinks people should think; stay and incite others not to pay taxes (this
should be easy, as it should be their natural, selfish instinct, to keep
what they have produced), to such a point that he has enough manpower to
fight for his and his cronies "rights". The Constitution and DoC, etc.,
sound really great, but they are only worth the paper they are printed on.
To a collector that might be a lot, but to me, certainly not my life! The
only rights anyone has are to die and pay taxes. Those are our inalienable
rights, like it or not. We are all born with those, and by that honest
evaluation, it is obviously true that we are all born equal. In any other
way, we aren't.
Ten lines for your one line. The truth is never simple, which is why
lies, simple and sweet, are so easy to believe. Further, about the
"negative connitations" he has associated with government. Not
connitations, but straight up, no BS, truth. A street gang imposes its will
by force. Organized crime does the same. Government is the highest form of
gang. It imposes its will by force. It lets one man eat another's supper,
while yet another starves. Because the one with the free dinner is willing
to fight for more free dinners, and the man whose dinner he eats is in a
minority, the gang maintains power. The one who eats free is essentially a
gangster (1). The man who starves has no means of impacting either, and so
he is neglected entirely. It has always worked like this. Whether this is
right or wrong makes no difference to me; it is the way of the world, and
can't be changed. At least no one has discovered how to correct it, because
so very few realize the nature of it. Most don't look so fearlessly or
honestly at themselves much less the world. Myself, I have seen that
clearly, while I have evaded other things - in the world and in myself.
Things which I would like to see corrected, now that I have noticed them.
At the present, I am more concerned with correcting those things about
myself, not the world, but maybe I will get to that point. But if I even
got to such a point, what could I do? Time will tell.
But essentially, the description he used, protection racket, was an apt
and provacative choice.
> > > > activities, and it behooves you to get qualified tax advice from a tax
> > > > professional to aid you with your decision."
> >
> > Yes. Absolutely. I have read that if you make over about $80K you can
> > cut your federal income tax by $1 for every (up to a point) $1 you are
> > willing to spend on lawyers and CPAs. As far as I'm concerned I would
> > much rather pay them than support the government. At least most CPAs
> > are actively engaged in murder.
>
> Personally, nope. I feel a larger obligation to the government than to • lawyers
> and CPA's. Primarily because the nature of their actions is to screw one
party
Your perception of lawyers is quite the norm, sadly. In fact, lawyers
are a type of defender - usually against people or organizations who have
their own interests at heart, not yours. While a lawyer must have his own
interests at heart, you are paying him to have yours at heart, too. When an
entity with more power than yourself tries to take something from you, if
you don't get help, the entity will probably succeed. Paying a lawyer to
defend you keeps the law schools open, as young people see that as a good
occupation. Letting any entity walk all over you won't increase enrollments
in law schools. Believing a stereotype about lawyers is foolish. The only
reason the stereotype exists is because so many ordinary people act quite
foolish when dealing with lawyers. We are all on this road called life - it
wouldn't hurt if we learned a little about it before bad things happen, so
we can deal with them wisely when they do. But that takes work, and
doesn't fit in well with the same mentality that tells us to eat someone
else's dinner.
> over for another party's benefit, and get paid for it, thus screwing over • the
> benefiting party. Personally, I find that horribly immoral. And as far as • what
> the government does with my money, I think the majority of it at least gets
I beg to differ. I think the majority of it gets spent about as well as
the welfare check spent by a person who lives in a trailer. On such things
as beer, the casino and video games.
> spent well. There are terrible problems with the system, and there are • things
> the government spends money on (like some of the rather crazy art • endowments
> they have) that I object to tremendously, but then again, we also live in a
> democracy. If you can convince a large majority of something, you can • affect
> how people vote, and inderectly affect how the nation is run. If you can't
> convince a large majority of people of something, well... maybe your • argument
> isn't that great to start with. And if you're still unsatisfied, run for
office
So, mob rule is a good thing in your book? Interesting.
> if you feel so strongly. What I'm absoloutly sick and tired of though, are
> whiners and complainers. In my own opinion, your right to complain is • directly
> proportional to how much you've tried to change things for the better. • Maybe
> you've tried a lot, and deserve to complain, but then again, I don't really
> know. But I know that not that many people HAVE tried to change things, and • I
> don't want this to blossom into a complaining thread.
We are in harmony, David. Complaining is useless. Learning and studying
and debating different ideas is not. Changing, for the better, is
tremendously good, and should always start from within. Unless you're Larry.
He is perfect. He leads by example. My own goal is to be able to say, "I
am perfect" and have people guessing if I am joking or not. Thanks Lar!
> > > > Will Middelaer
> >
> > > > (Please, no posts about how income taxes are illegal because the 16th
> > > > amendment was never ratified or any of that stuff. We live within a • system
> > > > that isn't so bad compared with the rest of the world, so just relax.)
OK. I'm relaxed. I won't argue with it. Above I said those pieces of
paper aren't worth my life, so if something violates them, I am not going
give it up. Not at this point in time anyway. I am not really going to
complain about a possible violation of what is written on those papers
either, since they are only the gang's contract with me anyway. I expect
gangsters to behave like gangsters. To lie, and cheat, even with their own
rules. If a man in the street puts his gun to my head and has the upper
hand, I won't be valiant, I'll give him my wallet. Your right, it isn't
perfect, but it isnt so bad. I hope it doesn't become so.
> > What the hell is that. Why not? What do you care if I post about that?
> > Oh, I see. So just because it "isn't so bad" we should fully support
> > it? Well every time I pay income taxes (and I do because I don't want
> > to be killed) I feel guilty because I know that I am paying people to go
> > kill other people and that's just [explitive snipped]. And there's no • damn
> > thing I can do about it. And I'll cling to any reasonable rationalle that • I
> > can for why I shouldn't have to pay those taxes because I know that what • I'm
> > doing is wrong. I'm just shutting up and not making waves because it's
> > more comfortable. Just like most Germans were doing sixty years ago.
Frog in a kettle on a fire, hmm. Put out the fire.
> > (Since I've only alluded to it does that mean I've lost, or not?)
May have lost the battle but not the war - reinforcements have arrived!
> > Chris
>
> Well, I think the purpose was not to avoid the topic because of his lack of
> argument, but that it gets things way off topic really fast. And • personally, I
> agree... I don't like complaining fests. I think all in all maybe you're
> reading a bit too much into the message. And I certainly don't think there • was
> a need for profanity. Despite the fact that you may not have "agreed" to • the
> laws of your nation, you HAVE agreed to the laws of LUGNET. Please respect
> them.
Oh, but I enjoy reading so many various views on off topic subjects -
better than no posts on no subject. Didn't seem to get too bad so far. If
you want the complaining fest, check out Lugnet.dear-lego - its on!
Profanity? This is debate. I don't think any kids are going to read Chris'
five page (or now 10 page) post. Sorry, I am nit picking too, must be
contagious. I look forward to your snipped reply!
--
Have fun!
John
The Legos you've been dreaming of...
http://www114.pair.com/ig88/lego
my weird Lego site:
http://www114.pair.com/ig88/
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Message has 1 Reply:
Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Taxes from Lego auctions?
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| (...) I think that's quite a bit more extremest than the original statement, but in essense, yes. If it came down to you paying $3.50 or being put in jail for 5 to 10 years, I'd hope you'd pay the $3.50, because it really ISN'T worth the trouble of (...) (25 years ago, 17-Dec-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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