Subject:
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Re: Taxes from Lego auctions?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.market.theory
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Date:
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Fri, 17 Dec 1999 23:04:24 GMT
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Viewed:
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483 times
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In lugnet.market.theory, Will Middelaer writes:
> Please, no posts about how income taxes are illegal because the 16th
> amendment was never ratified or any of that stuff.
I am sick as a dog, but I couldn't let this particular comment pass without
commenting upon it myself.
And BTW, it is my understanding that the 16th Amendment has essentially no
force in law. It neither adds nor detracts from existing tax provisions in
other parts of the Constitution. Income taxes are not illegal. The way they
are APPLIED is illegal. The Constitution recognizes two categories of
taxation -- direct and indirect, and that's it. You can tax people directly
according to certain provisions enumerated in the Constitution (this would be
like a pole tax), or you can tax them indirectly in the way of sales taxes,
excises, and so forth. That's it. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS ANOTHER CATEGORY
OF TAXATION! The income tax, if properly applied, is merely an excise tax
upon a taxable activity -- like the earning of interest, or the sale of stocks
at a profit.
Interest and taxable activities like the sale of alcohol are regulated
activities and can therefore be taxed. Moreover, such taxes do not tax a
person at the source of their property, so again it is seen as a justifiable
instance of taxation. No arguments there at all. I pay all the taxes that I
owe and so should you. But that is not exactly what we have today in terms of
the way income taxes are being applied.
To actually tax someone's wages, as though it were not something they had 100%
a right to, is an outrage! Wages are quid pro quo, and not income. No profit
is realized from every calorie of sweat I may put into my labor. If you
believe this is false, then fine, believe that...
...but where does it stop? Is it legal to tax 30-45% but not more? If they
can tax your wages to the tune of 40% do they not have the right to tax it
100%? The answer is yes. It is said that "the power to tax is the power to
destroy." Now, this is much misunderstood -- and it not mere rhetoric, it is a
statement of how tax laws actually work. It means literally that what the
government may tax even 1% they have the right to tax 100% and thereby
essentially put a stop to interest in pursuing the taxable activity. But this
is largely theoretical, and one may wonder at the sorts of activities the
goverment may actually stop by this methodology. And it certainly does not
apply to the way I feel about earning my wages.
I have the right to 100% of my wages. It is not a taxable activity as under
an income tax because no profit is realized. I get paid what the labor is
worth to the employer or the person paying you to do a thing for them -- quid
pro quo -- and therefore no profit.
It has occurred to me that some of you may look up the word "income" in a
common dictionary and come to feel that I am insane. Not so, the colloquial
definition of "income" does indeed include the idea of wages. So long has the
hideous lie been maintained about taxes that the layperson's understanding of
the word has become an almost de facto definition of the word even in legal
circles -- but that does not make it the legal definition of the word! Please
refer instead to Bouvier's Law Dictionary and Concise Encyclopedia (1914) or
perhaps even to a more common Black's Law Dictionary. Or better still, read
the code itself -- Title 26 of the Federal Codes -- Its excellent reading with
strong coffee and pastry...
> We live within a system that isn't so bad compared with the rest of the
> world, so just relax.
I happen to think that this is exactly what is wrong with the United States at
the present time...
...and I don't find it very different from "America: love it or leave it,"
or "You can't fight city hall."
Not exactly in the way of "eternal vigilence" on the part of us -- the ruling
class -- to maintain the purity of our democratic republic is it? I find this
kind of apathy reprehensible! It doesn't have to be broke to want to fix or
improve it. If Malcolm X, or Susan B. Anthony had had this bad an attitude we
would still be living in the social reform dark ages to be sure...
And in case you haven't noticed, much of the rest of the world is largely
socialistic -- and even then they pay less in taxes than do most Americans.
And they get considerably greater benefits for their money as well. I mean,
fine, let's go socialist -- maybe this crazy republican form of government has
run it course. Tax the crap out of me. How much of my earnings is actually
required to have a national health policy?
200 plus years ago they fought a bloody revolution over what might have been
a 15% tax. We pay literally around 40% depending on the tax bracket. Think
of it all: federal tax; state tax; city tax; sales tax; excise taxes on
firearms, alcohol, tobacco, gasoline, sugar, coffee, etc; car plates, phone
taxes, social security taxes (actually just a second income tax, but why
should I spoil your fun in the reading the code for yourself?, etc. Is there
no point at which it rankles? What will rouse you from your torpor?
And if your response to this is "So what?" Then I guess you must be the kind
of person who thinks that there is actually a rule about Free Parking in
Monopoly...guess what?...there isn't! But most people claim a lot of
knowledge about things they know nothing about: the Bible, the law, the
Constitution, etc.
We have the means to peacably alter the way in which government's business is
currently being done. To fail to do so is exactly what the founders of the
country feared. They feared that we might become complacent and ignorant of
our political heritage. Most people have NEVER even read the Constitution --
do you have any idea how short it is? That emulating it became the basis of
many other republics on a global scale?
Read it as you would "A Christmas Carol" on Xmas, except maybe choose July 4th
instead...read it every year...distribute copies of it...it really is as
brilliant as they it is...take a chance...what have you got to lose...?
We are the laughingstock of the world. Each of us all too happy to dig in and
enjoy the pleasures of the house, cable, and three squares a day. More
concerned about Mr. X's batting average than the way our lives are governed.
Welcome to the North American Game Preserve. Don't talk to the natives, they
get agitated at the first sign of an intellectual discussion...
-- Richard (Friends call me Heat-Miser...)
P.S. I am not a legal expert. The above is just my opinion, while I still
have the freedom to express that opinion. If you think I am wrong, I would
recommend you research it for yourself -- which is always the best thing to do
anyway. And for the record, I am 100% in favor of our present form of
goverment and I would want no other. It would be such a great republic if
people only cared about it as much they care about Lego, or other things of
less consequence.
P.P.S I am not wholly uninformed, as I did attend Northwestern Law School in
Chicago for a while. And as far as I can see, most informed persons DO think
the current forms of taxation are illegal, or at least misapplied -- some of
my professors confided to me that this was their belief. But then they would
smile and shrug, as if to say, "What're ya gonna do?" This is why there is a
move afoot to stop the federal tax in favor of a federal sales tax. Think of
the benefits: the govt. gets what it needs to do its work, and no messy or
revealing paperwork on your part. That reads "WIN-WIN" to me -- as a person
who values his privacy. And you could easily avoid the tax by simply not
buying the sorts of items thusly taxed...
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Message is in Reply To:
 | | Re: Taxes from Lego auctions?
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| (...) You can not claim the value of your own time against the transaction, but in the case listed above, you made no money so you have no income to claim. You simply sold something for the same amount that you bought it for, realizing no gain or (...) (25 years ago, 17-Dec-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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