 | | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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This post is rather long. Sorry about that, for anyone who's following. (...) Well, I watched the entire "beheading" video, and honestly it's not particularly more horrifying that the pictures from Abu Ghraib. Yes, it's a brutal, premeditiated act, (...) (20 years ago, 25-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) Once caught, I wonder if they will be subjected to a 1-hour show trial? (...) Scott A (20 years ago, 25-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) Well, even pictures of Nick Berg's slaughter couldn't have compared with the audio and video portrayal of it. (...) I believe we are talking about rogues, not policy, because that kind of behavior serves absolutely no useful purpose (as an (...) (20 years ago, 26-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) <snip> (...) When? If this is still about Iraq (and I didn't see in the conversation where it strayed from Iraq), when did Iraq act against you? Again I ask, 'how many Iraqi citizens were involved in 9/11? How many Saudis? And yet you use 9/11 (...) (20 years ago, 26-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) Huh? 4 terms? 4 years maybe. (20 years ago, 26-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) A number? No. An example of their cruel, savage barbarism? Yes. War is different. Basically in war, you are saying to your enemy, "Surrender to us, or we probably will kill you." Even at any time in war, surrender is an option and the killing (...) (20 years ago, 26-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) I agree with the latter part; torture is notoriously unreliable as an information source. However, it is becoming increasingly clear that the torture at Abu Ghraib (and likely elsewhere) was endorsed by high ranking military personnel, up to (...) (20 years ago, 26-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) Even if it is, it is policy (which is my point anyway). (...) Again, this is not our policy. (...) It doesn't. (...) They have more evidence than I, but I'm not sure it even matters to me anyway. (...) He still takes his orders from men, not (...) (20 years ago, 26-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) (URL) Here's> a fun little site (no longer current, but archived) that dissects Ms. Coulter's spew. Worth checking out for anyone mistakes Coulter for a legitimate journalist or worthwhile commentator. Dave! (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) I see in this post this suggestion advanced again. I think I have seen it before. It goes well with this one that John prepared earlier: (...) I mentioned that I saw a structure and underlying logic in some of Scott's posts, and felt bad for (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) Entertaining, but I only got a little ways in when I hit this. A.C.: "One can assume the director of the Nigerian Department of Tourism isn't too pleased. Winning the pageant site had been an uphill battle from the beginning. Some of the more (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Parsons wrote: <snip> (...) Now this is why I hang out here.. Very nicely stated, Richard. Dave K (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Hmmm, I thought it was a bit long winded and sort of lost track at the per capita part. In my politically incorrect world it seems a large part of the problem is those darned capitas. The third world produces so many of them it messes up the (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Bollocks. Most of the problems of the third world countries that are doing poorly are attributable to lack of the rule of law, and lack of enforceable property rights in those countries. Claiming it's the first world's fault is, frankly, a (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Well, part of the reason that people in third-world nations have 10 kids is because 80% of those kids will likely die before puberty. Obviously that's not an inviolable statistic, and just as obviously it's not the only cause of skewed (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) You don't actually have to look to the 3rd world to see the problem. It exists in your own backyard. The have-nots everywhere seem to reproduce faster. The imbalance will always exist, maybe it's programmed into our genes. You can bicker over (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Hi. 80% mortality? Not likely. In fact, the opposite is true; that's what's helping the problem of overpopulation along. The real pushing force is the *labor value* of children; in agricultural societies--or, better put, societies that still (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Well, I was only responding to the question as it was raised in regard to third world "per capita" breeding rates. (...) I don't know that we need to play the "genes" card right off the bat; it sort of implies that "proles naturally breed like (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Well, all right--80% is a gross exaggeration. Still, infant death rates are sharply higher in third world nations than in the "developed" countries. Lemmee take another looksee... According to this site: (URL) 1999 more than 30 nations had (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Are you sure about that? Children have very little labor value in our society, and I still see the have-nots reproducing faster. You've hit ONE reason, but not nearly ALL reasons. (...) Hmm, is that wealth the cause, or the result? Or are they (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) There is a negative correlation between the average family size and the per capita GDP (or any of a number of other economic maturity indicators), in that as GDP goes up, people have less children. This is attributed to the shift away from (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) [snippity snip] (...) What! You've been beating me all along with bogus facts and figures? I hate that! Liar, liar, pants on fire! I win. There, that feels better. :^) Don PS. :^) :) :^) Just in case you sensitive folks missed the other one. (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Value systems die very hard. I was speaking primarily about the "third world" (or as we like to call it, the "two-thirds world"), but it's not hard to see that when people come here, the values system that promotes large families tends to have (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Hey, don't attribute to my duplicity what can be explained by my doofusness! (...) I figured I'd let you have one once in a while to keep you interested. 8^) Dave! (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) !!! Divide it by ten, sir. Really, you're way off. Read your links again. The statistics give the number of deaths *per 1,000 live births* not the number per *100* live births. So that's 7.6%, not too far off in a very poor country. (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Boy oh boy. Don't ask me to compute a tip the next time I dine on a Friday afternoon. It'll be hard to see my monitor until after my head-ectomy. The 76% figure came from (URL), in section 4.3. Poor citation on my part. **snip of the rest that (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Note the symbol is not % but its cousin, with two zeroes in the denominator. That indicates "76 of one thousand." If they'd meant 76/100, they would have used 0/0 and not 0/00. (...) We can play the Pirate Game, winner takes all... ;) all best (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) This is only part of the picture, but you do have a point. You may find it interesting to search Google for “(URL) birth control>” The reality is that developed countries are substantially responsible for much of the problems in the developing (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Hey now, I *am* one of those farmers. Pumpkins, not corn. What do you recommend *I* do. I can't exactly dump the extras in developing countries, but I have donated hundreds to local school fund raisers. Is that cutting into the 3rd world (...) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Snip onerous list, but look out, I've gone long again. (...) There is no doubt that rule of law and property rights are problems in some places. As are local tinpots (which the first world tends to prop up in the name of trade which abhors (...) (20 years ago, 29-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Other countries such as Saudi Arabia, or any of the other oil-rich nations? Seems to me that we are directly responsible for the enrichment of these nations by our consumption. But back to the terrorists. First, let's dispense with the notion (...) (20 years ago, 29-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) I try to offer alternatives; I can't help it if you are not open to them! Do I have to offer alternatives? I'm not sure I do. Example: If I catch you having sex with your cat; do I have to offer you an alternative in order to suggest you stop? (...) (20 years ago, 29-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | country bumpkin's 'n' pumpkins
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(...) Forget the developing world for now. Let's pretend I'm a pumpkin farming country bumpkin getting a subsidy from the EU to grow the awful things even though there is no market for them. Like you describe, I sell my surplus at a discount and (...) (20 years ago, 29-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Mmmmm. Oil rich countries like Iran and Iraq? And there is no doubt that a great deal of money is paid for natural resources, the question is whether the pricing and process is fair, and whether it leaves these countries better off or not. (...) (20 years ago, 29-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) So you think that the oil wealth is distributed equally per capita? That's remarkably Socialist of you, John, but it's not the reality. The state (states, really, seven of 'em) where wealth distribution on public projects is greatest is the (...) (20 years ago, 29-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: country bumpkin's 'n' pumpkins
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(...) [snip] Holy Cow! I'm finally getting through. Yes! That's what I've been trying to tell you. Take a break from .debate. Grab a toy and start some role playing. You'll feel much better. Let me recommend this one. (URL) comes with a pumpkin, a (...) (20 years ago, 29-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: country bumpkin's 'n' pumpkins
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(...) ZING! Good one, Don! :-) Too bad the set doesn't come with the (URL) so that the boy could hit it with the stick. On second thought, that might "hit" too close to home;-) JOHN (hehe..., a troll:-) (20 years ago, 29-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: country bumpkin's 'n' pumpkins
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(...) Well, if you're gonna play hit the bunny. I'd play with (URL) this one>. "That's the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered rodent you ever set eyes on!" Now where's that monty python lego movie... Have fun, Don (20 years ago, 30-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: country bumpkin's 'n' pumpkins
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(...) Not without the Holy hand grenade of Antioch I won't! (...) Bummer. It seems to have disappeared from the LEGO web site:-( I have a little test of character, Don, and you passed the first one: 1. Must have love and appreciation of the work of (...) (20 years ago, 30-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) "Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding." Albert Einstein (20 years ago, 30-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) But it is achieved by force. JOHN (20 years ago, 31-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) You mean like in Israel/Palestine? Or do you mean like in WW1? Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 31-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Yeah, the peace that came from force in the Soviet union for approximately 40ish years. That worked real well. Dave K (20 years ago, 31-May-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Man, this is just embarrassing. I did *not* note the mill sign. Maybe if they'd referred to basis points, it would have gotten through my skull. But probably not. I'm reminded of (URL) an admission I made long ago> in one of our many (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) First, Israel's restraint has perpetuated the conflict with the Palestinians. The conflict could have easily been ended as far back as in 1967 after the victory in the 6 Day War. WWI is a classic example illustrating my point. There was no (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Tell that to the dead women and children on both sides. (...) "Civilized nations" do not continue (or start) a war when there is a non-violent alternative. Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Actually, I'd cite WWI as a great example of what Ross was getting at: Peace cannot be kept by force; it can only be achieved by understanding. The key word you are missing is "kept". If there ever was a lack of understanding destined not to (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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I think in FMJ, 8-Ball is shot in the leg. (...) John, your blind support for Israel, despite the "facts on the ground", is rather unsophisticated. In this group I have already shown you how Israel is a belligerent power which is currently led by an (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Yeah, and am I to suppose that your blind support for terrorism is sophisticated? Please. (...) And I pointed out that, even if you want to label Sharon in such a way, he is an elected official who will soon be gone; the true criminal and (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Hey, don't drag (URL) Spider-Man> into this. Dave! (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Flibbity Floo! I thought I came up with that! (URL) is nothing new under the sun> JOHN (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) No need to be a pottymouth about this. (...) I just didn't want you to be accused of plagiarism. 8^) (...) Hmm. And here I thought that was (URL) Pete Seeger>. 8^) Dave! (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) hehe Good point. I should, at this juncture, point out that "Flibbity Floo™" is an expression coined by Dana Carvey AFAIK:-) Hear that, Scott? (...) Good one! (And I thought it was The Byrds;-) JOHN (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) Ahhh, I remember those marvelous Ditko Spider-Man comics of my youth! No one drew like him. Oops, sorry, digressing on a digression... -->Does Whatver a Spider Can<-- (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault".
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(...) ...and I thought the (URL) monkey theory> had been proven wrong! ;) Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 3-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Richard: "It's all bad news - Chaos is my fault"
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(...) That is rather offensive. I won't even bother to ask you to justify your statement. (...) That argument has some merit; I just can't remember you ever using it until today(?). Is any living man responsible for the murder of more civilians than (...) (20 years ago, 3-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) Resurrecting an old point, but I came upon (URL) this> and thought it was relevant to Hannity "knowing his stuff." Dave! (20 years ago, 18-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: From Reason: "It's all bad news - Chaos in occupied Iraq"
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(...) (shrug) American Progress CEO John Podesta said, "I think when you get so distant from the facts as -- as guys like Limbaugh and Sean Hannity do, yeah, I think that tends to -- it kind of -- it tends to corrupt the dialogue." "So distant from (...) (20 years ago, 18-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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