Subject:
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Re: In light of Tuesday's events (was Re: Are we doing the right thing?)
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 14 Sep 2001 01:05:23 GMT
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Viewed:
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933 times
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Chris,
I am not trying to claim that you are saying things that you haven't said.
Rather, I am trying to reflect back to you the conclusions and philosophy
that you have conveyed in your posts, and also to apply them to the very
real tragedy at the WTC (as opposed to some hypothetical avalanche).
For the record, I wasn't "looking" for a reason to be annoyed. A lot has
been written since Tuesday morning over which I could get extremely annoyed.
Your posts were written in a simpler time (was it just last week?) and I've
had more time to ponder them.
Let's start with a recap:
Exhibit A - On Wed, 5 Sep 2001, you wrote:
> > Resorting to the destruction and
> > murder of innocent non-combatants is butchery and moral wretchedness of the
> > grossest sort
>
> If you, your children and the bus driver are trapped under an avalanche and
> your children are starving, do you kill and serve the driver to avoid watching
> your children die of starvation? In answering this hypothetical, I do.
> Morality is a fanciful phantom when your life is on the line. Duty to my
> children is greater by far than duty to humanity.
Exhibit B - On Wed, 12 Sep 2001, you wrote:
> A group of people who are systematically wronged by another should feel free to
> do almost whatever it takes to free themselves from bondage.
This second point you have stated several times (prior to Tuesday you gave
no proviso) - for example:
> > > > > I disagree. Any people should use whatever methods they have at their
> > > > > disposal to secure a fair measure of life. To do less is to accept
> > > > > slavery. If their only recourse is terrorism, then their neighbors
> > > > > damn well need to help solve their problems (or snuff them).
I will deal with your proviso - "do almost whatever" - further down, so
please bear with me.
So then, these are your words. Now, if I were adopt these statements as part
of my outlook on life, I would conclude:
1) My needs, as I define them, are the highest measure of what is right and
good;
2) Whatever actions I take to ensure my needs are right and good;
3) If there are victims from my actions (re:#2), their opinions are
immaterial and their circumstances are of no consequence (see - the bus driver);
4) Terrorism is a legitimate (ie right and good) way to achieve #1.
5) Annihilating a whole people (whether they be wrongdoers or the wronged)
is legitimate if their attempts at achieveing #1 for themselves interferes
with my achieving #1 (see - "or snuff them").
These are the conclusions to be drawn from your comments.
You've added the proviso "do almost whatever" late in the game, and you've
stated "some ends justify some means". But, you also state (as "simply
obvious") that there is no universal right or wrong (which actually conforms
to #1 above).
Without an appeal to universal right and wrong, there is no basis on which
to measure your statements of "do almost whatever" and "some ends justify
some means". What is justifiable to me may not be justifiable to you - so on
what basis can my actions be declared right or wrong (good or bad)?
And so, based on your comments, we have no basis on which to condemn the
terrorists who created such carnage on Tuesday. It was right and good for
them in achieving their needs. By extrapolation, whatever response comes
from the US will also be "right and good".
These are the conclusions to be drawn from your comments. You may not like
them (I hope you don't), and you may not have intended them (I hope you
didn't), but based on what you have said over many posts this is where they
lead. And this is why I'm annoyed.
With respect,
Alan
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