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(...) Its an example to show that you can't use a country's laws legally in another country. The UN had the resolution--the UN has to deal with enforcing it. The US, stating the UN resolution as reason to invade, but at hte same time acting against (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I put a question mark behind my question to show that it wasn't an assumption. You assumed incorrectly that I was making an assumption. I would have used a more recent example from Africa, but I couldn't remember the name of the country (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Indeed it was, but you wholy missed the point in your zealous rush to criticize me yet again. I wasn't objecting to your use of my own words, but to your callous treatment of my statements by way of making a big public show of ignoring them. (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) <snip> (...) I've been busy building for the last couple weeks, but I've finally got a chance to come back and read through this mess again. Much as others missed the intent of your sewer comment, I think you missed the intent of my patriotism (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) There's only one part of your answer that matters: "No". When talking about something being "just" or "unjust", we are not talking about the power to enforce that, and I'm not addressing that at all. So, no, Saddam doesn't have the right to (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Reading in steep decline?
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(...) Various unorganized thoughts: --While web surfing does involve a lot of reading, this is generally in very small bites, distracted by a lot of colorful eye-candy. It's like the contrast between USA Today and the New York Times. Reading books (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Not sure--maybe they could go at night, when no one's watching. Your other post suggesting "information" seems a good compromise, unless the surrounding nation can somehow claim the airwaves as its own property and thereby charge for their (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Honestly, I don't know the answer to that one off hand. What do you suggest? Armored VTOL aircraft or spaceships? Or maybe just never leaving? (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Can information penetrate this barrier? In that case pretty much any country with a sufficient(1) technology and manufacturing base should be OK (even if they're a net importer of food and raw materials now) 1 - I suspect defining "sufficient" (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I support cohesive sanctions against Iraq. That said, my wanting to not let people suffer anywhere in the world gets conflicted with what's best in the long run. 'Food for oil' will minimize the suffering of the people today, however it won't (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Hey, you know, I always (well, not really always) wondered why they don't do that with those "Native American" casinos you see popping up all over the place these days. Apparently they're able to fight that sort of thing off. (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, maybe this is a better hypothetical: What if the dominant nation (accepting, though, that the minarchist idea kind of trumps this) simply buys all territory surrounding the smaller nation and then charges the smaller nation a billion (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Nope, I was genuinely intersted to see where the debate would go--I don't have a solid opinion on the matter, and this particular hypothetical scenario doesn't pertain to the current Iraqi situation. I did think about the American revolution, (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) In advance? Would you sign up for that? Or do you mean after the fact against people who were in already? I would tend to think (and I'm guessing here) that every new law (except basic common law, you can't dodge the prohibition against (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Dejure. "consent of the governed" and all that... It may defacto have a lot of guns though. (...) Only if you can escape, and your former co citizens (or properly employed police) don't come find you and remand you back into custody. I don't (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That's fine with me--I'm interested in examining the philosophy itself, (...) Okay, I think that makes some sense. But couldn't the dominant nation simply impose upon the seceeding nation a fee of, say, a billion dollars per person to effect (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Larry Pieniazek" <larry.(mylastname)@...areDOTcom> wrote in message news:I0Ju05.zt6@lugnet.com... (...) people (...) Ok, so an improperly formed sovereignty doesn't have any validity... (...) the (...) exclude (...) Hmm, if I'm accused of a crime, (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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These are LMF answers, not my own, which are rather muddier. (...) Yes, each and every one... (...) Any group of people, no matter how small, whether territorial or not. At the extreme, it must be unanimous consent or else provision must be made to (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Bruce Schlickbernd" <corsair@schlickbernd.org> wrote in message news:I0Hq3D.5IE@lugnet.com... (...) guys (...) must (...) that (...) in the (...) line. (...) these guys (...) Good point about people who don't want to be there guarding people's (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Christopher Weeks" <clweeks@eclipse.net> wrote in message news:I0Hp4F.24K7@lugnet.com... (...) happen: (...) this (...) or (...) lives (...) granted. Hmm, I'm not sure I agree with either solution, but I think we should widen the sources for aid. (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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These are LMF answers, mind you... not mine, which are rather muddier (...) Armed conflict happens, presumably. (...) The citizens of the invaded country. As always, just as if they were considering secession peacefully. (...) The Second Amendment (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Lenny Hoffman" <lahoffma@*NOSPAM*ma...r.fsu.edu> wrote in message news:I0Jo0v.1KL2@lugnet.com... (...) was a (...) legality (...) of (...) it. I, (...) the chest (...) directly (...) them (...) is (...) Hmm, are you never justified in taking (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"David Koudys" <dkoudys@redeemer.on.ca> wrote in message news:I0JpDD.1yqA@lugnet.com... (...) from (...) ways, we (...) a) (...) world (...) of your (...) This does tend to be the best way to deal with people who won't play nice. Of course at some (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Larry Pieniazek" <larry.(mylastname)@...areDOTcom> wrote in message news:I0Jrr3.GAL@lugnet.com... (...) short (...) to (...) own and (...) foreign (...) always (...) answer (...) Hmm, how do you define sovereignty? Does it require consent of the (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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"Lenny Hoffman" <lahoffma@*NOSPAM*ma...r.fsu.edu> wrote in message news:I0JsE3.KMD@lugnet.com... (...) point (...) in our (...) than (...) Hmm, in my experience, extreme examples are great for exploring assertions, and helping cut to the essense. I (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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These are MLF answers mind you, not my personal view which is a bit muddier (...) I suspect you're not going to do that but OK, I'll play along. (...) Check. (...) Check. (...) Not legitimately directly from other countries. Only from privateers who (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) ooh.. i know! Maybe I'm not man enough! (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) "no intervention" - the UN has repeatedly placed economic sanctions on countries for human rights abuses. "slaughter" is a loaded term. A nation has a right to defend itself from insurgents and rebels. A nation has a right to enforce its own (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm curious--under the Flash(tm) philosophy, what happens if one sovereign nation invades and subjugates a second nation, thereby imposing the sovereignty of the invader over the invaded? What kind of action can be taken in response, since the (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Well, let's talk about this, then, and keep it entirely in the realm of hypothetical. Country A is oppressive. A majority of citizens of Country A decide to have a 'revolt' to shake off the tyrannical oppressive gov't. Can the citizens get aid (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I just finished replying to your message where you did indeed dodge the question, so I gotta say that you ignorant claim is pretty darn ignorant. :-) (...) Of course not. I was merely trying to get you to confront the logical extension of your (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) In my experience, extreme examples do more to mud up the argument rather than cutting to the essence. The key issue is regarding WW2 and the Holocaust is that nation sovereignty wasn't an issue for either case (the war or the genocide). (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The Macho Libertarian Flash(tm) answer is that there is NO justification, short of actually being invaded by another sovereignty and needing to repel the attack, that justifies attack on another sovereign country. Nor is there any (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Reading in steep decline?
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"Larry Pieniazek" <larry.(mylastname)@...areDOTcom> wrote in message news:I0JqsJ.8C7@lugnet.com... (...) to me, (...) act of (...) do, in (...) open on the (...) Not if the reader is driving a Humvee... Reading really is a set of skills: 1. (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) A dodge, but I'll go with the flow: then you believe that international law supports that any nation recognized by the U.N. is free to slaughter its inhabitants at will and no intervention is just? (...) I'll lay it out to you the same way I (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) But that was just an extreme example of what I said. It was a starting point for distinguishing what you really think about the role of sovereignty in our war-decisions. Do you think that a nation can act to cause harm to its own population (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Dave. You are now my hero. I will make an effort to read OTD regularly from now on so I can catch every snipet of ignorance that falls from your golden mouth. -Lenny (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) That doesn't count as reading either! ... but it does count as evolution in action. (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) It always bums me out when I discover that someone hasn't been reading any of my posts. Dave! 8^) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The way I heard it was, around 1450 or so, a learned scientist did a study on the phenomenon, which supported the claim, but since he was not really happy with the results, his method of "publishing" was to ask his son to memorise the whole (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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