Debate : 24679


Off-Topic / Debate / 24679	24678 \| 24680

Subject:	Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
Newsgroups:	lugnet.off-topic.debate
Date:	Thu, 8 Jul 2004 19:06:39 GMT
Viewed:	1283 times

In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Christopher L. Weeks wrote: > In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Leonard Hoffman wrote: > > > I do believe, what Bruce actually asked me was if I supported > > Hitler killing the Jews... > > But that was just an extreme example of what I said. It was a starting point > for distinguishing what you really think about the role of sovereignty in our > war-decisions. > > Do you think that a nation can act to cause harm to its own population without > ever threatening the sovereignty of the neighbors to such a degree that invasion > of that country -- violation of their sovereignty, is justified? > > We can imagine a case in which traditional human rights abuses aren't even a > factor. What if it turns out that rain-forest depletion becomes a risk for > making the planet uninhabitable? Are we justified in invading Brazil (or > Malaysia, or whatever) to protect the Earth? > > The essence of this is the question: What's so important about sovereignty? The Macho Libertarian Flash(tm) answer is that there is NO justification, short of actually being invaded by another sovereignty and needing to repel the attack, that justifies attack on another sovereign country. Nor is there any justification for preventing citizens from *volunteering* to fight on their own recognizance (with the proviso that they're on their own and no rescue will be forthcoming if they get captured) for or against a foreign power, or raising funds for causes they believe in. In that ideal answer there is no problem such as you pose, the answer is always no, you're not justified. The problem is, while it's a goal to be strived for, it's not a practical answer in all cases.

Message has 3 Replies:

		Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
(...) Well, let's talk about this, then, and keep it entirely in the realm of hypothetical. Country A is oppressive. A majority of citizens of Country A decide to have a 'revolt' to shake off the tyrannical oppressive gov't. Can the citizens get aid (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
"Larry Pieniazek" <larry.(mylastname)@...areDOTcom> wrote in message news:I0Jrr3.GAL@lugnet.com... (...) short (...) to (...) own and (...) foreign (...) always (...) answer (...) Hmm, how do you define sovereignty? Does it require consent of the (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

		Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
(...) I'm curious--under the Flash(tm) philosophy, what happens if one sovereign nation invades and subjugates a second nation, thereby imposing the sovereignty of the invader over the invaded? What kind of action can be taken in response, since the (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

Message is in Reply To:

		Re: We'll take in your poor, your homeless, your oppressed...
(...) But that was just an extreme example of what I said. It was a starting point for distinguishing what you really think about the role of sovereignty in our war-decisions. Do you think that a nation can act to cause harm to its own population (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)

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