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(...) But what you don't understand is that this is an asset. Unencumbered by world regard, we can do anything, anywhere. Who's going to stop us? Chris (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) ...meanwhile, the USA's reputation overseas nosedives. Scott A (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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I think it is time Oz re-joined the Empire. ;) Scott A (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Some quick research turns up that I am a little out of date - he's been (URL) charged> now. Its an interesting document. The rest of the summary seems pretty much spot on. (URL) seems to have been more or less the state of play before the (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) I don't think Bush'll be in trouble over this one. He can just smirk out of the TV at us and say that 'Merica was made safer for the three or four years that they were held illegally and that he was willing to do whatever it took. Many of my (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Gawd! If you're presenting an accurate view, that really is disgusting. They should have demanded their people back long ago. Chris (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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(...) Yup. Indeed, as I understand it Australia is one of the few (perhaps the only) country with nationals involved who has NOT asked for them back. Apparently at the time our dudes did whatever undisclosed thing that they may at some stage be (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) Tony B.Liar may be up for re-election next year. His closeness to Bush has become a major electoral (URL). To mitigate this, he is trying show he is not 100% lapdog. As a result, the UK Attorney General noisily (and rightly) (URL) rejected> (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) I get the feeling Bush has painted himself into a corner with this one: If he releases these guys people will wonder why they were ever held to start with. If these guys do get their day in court, it is clear that the "evidence" will be (...) (20 years ago, 29-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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(...) (URL) David Hicks to serve any sentence in Australia>, these questionable detentions seem to be heading in the right direction. Let's hope the Military Tribunals do not end up being (URL) show trials>. ROSCO (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Some wins for freedom from the Supremes
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3 important cases today, although one would wish for wider findings (as always) (URL) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Robbery, Reconstruction or Quagmire?
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(...) I expect you are correct. I was trying to highlight the chaos in Iraq to show how little Iraqis are benefiting from the billions of $$$ which are being transferred to Bush’s corporate buddies in their name. Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Taking the bait (was Re: Fair use and allusion?)
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(...) (much snippage) (...) Ok, fair enough. I will try to do better going forward. (...) Here's someone else that just popped up making the same, or a similar, point. (URL) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) So what about Saudi Arabia? It seems like you keep dodging the fact that SA is a much, much, much more significant player than Iraq given the very criteria that you just listed. Do you imagine that it could have anything to do with the very (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Robbery, Reconstruction or Quagmire?
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I find myself largely in agreement with Scott. But there is this: (...) Actually, they leave them because when the truck gets a flat in an insecure zone, they would rather torch the truck and leave it a flaming wreck than have their personnel (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) It did. (...) Sure, let's get rid of the veto. Lets go back and look at all the resolutions against Israel. Would the NeoCons in Washington like that? Scott A (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Add to that the UK and a growing number of your own countrymen. (...) ...and Bush wanted to remove him at the expense of the Iraqi people. Scott A (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Robbery, Reconstruction or Quagmire?
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(...) John, do you really believe this codswallop? This (URL) article> argues that security costs are eating up 25% of reconstruction contracts and that insurance brokers selling sudden-death policies to contractors in Iraq have doubled their (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Name all those that you feel see it as "obvious", subtract that from everyone else, and you will have "a great deal". (...) Seems obvious even to you that is NOT about freeing the people of Iraq, but controlling the flow of oil (which was (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) That seems to imply you think the current war wasn't a legitimate opportunity. But I know that can't be right... ROSCO (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) "A great deal"?, or mostly France and Germany (who had national interests in seeing SH remain in power-- at the expense of the Iraqi people). (...) I think everyone would agree that the free flow of oil is in the best interests of our country (...) (20 years ago, 28-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) No. And the "no" answer should be obvious because clearly a great deal of the world clearly thinks it isn't obvious. We are fighting for what Bush's crowd thinks is "our" (U.S.) interests, or would like us to believe is our (no quotes) (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) You are either not listening or being deliberately obtuse. We did not start a war with the people of Iraq; we simply deposed their oppressive government whom we perceived as a potential threat. We are fighting for Iraq, not against Iraq. Isn't (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) Students get money for basics; food, accommodation, travel to Uni, etc. (...) I have no idea what the costs are in the USA… sorry! (...) An educated workforce makes investment more likely. Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Um, I wasn't even there! Soo, do you have a cite for that???(1) (grins, ducks, runs). (...) 1 - that's my roundabout way of admitting that maybe, just maybe, a valid point has been made by Dave! (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) I like your idea of fighting back--Larry punches me in the face so, using 'John Logic', I'd punch, well, John in the face. Iraq didn't provoke you. There were no Iraqi's responsible for 9/11. There were, however, a large number of Saudis. Iraq (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) YOU: "See, it was perpetrated on us by those dirty, little, brown people from (flutters hand in silly gesture) over there. I mean, come on...they all look and sound alike. So you see, we're justified to attack any nation full of brown people (...) (20 years ago, 27-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) You gotta love the friendliest place on the internet... Chris (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) Well, sure. I wrote that I was making up the numbers. What exactly do you mean? (...) What's that mean? (...) Well, yeah, so you're agreeing with my number? (...) Right. I don't know. And I don't know how much it would change as the university (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) We are talking about different things. I was speaking about the war on terrorism in general; the fight against Muslim extremists who have been murdering innocents around the world for some time now. War was "declared" on the world a long time (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Speaking of rewriting history.... (...) I meant that we finally started fighting back with 9-11. (...) Well, Chris, I guess you are entitled to your opinion, no matter how stupid and offensive it is. JOHN (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) That does not have to be the case. (...) Don’t forget a means tested term-time subsistence grant. (...) I'm really talking about 4 year degree courses. If we set a target of 50% of the population going to Uni, then the average would be two (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Customer tracking at LEGOLand
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It looks like this is a followup to this (URL) a couple months ago, but I just found this (URL) and thought the negative implications of market research under the guise of keeping families together were interesting. I'm setting FUT to l.o-t.d since (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.legoland, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) The way I figure it, you should only be looking at an individual's consumption and 'payback.' I'll use what I consider pretty conservative figures so that the fact that I'm just making numbers up won't paint a rosier picture than is (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) And besides, we started that war too. (...) I'm pretty sure that John _does_ mean they started it with 9/11. To claim that there were no Iraqis involved really misses the point, I think. See, it was perpetrated on us by those dirty, little, (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) Careful with financial assessments of the costs of the war. Generally they tally what was spent by the government, not the cost. What of the externalised costs borne by others? The value of the lost American lives (the cost of which is borne (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Costs and Benefits
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(...) Tiny? Really? Ok, what would "free university tuition" cost per household? What would the benefits be? Compare that to this war. Scott A (...) (20 years ago, 26-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) You can rewrite history all you want but your adminisgtration *did* start this war--The US invaded Iraq. Iraq being a sovereign nation at the time that made no direct threats towards the US, no matter what the US administration wanted the (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair use and allusion?
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(...) Beg pardon? The war in Iraq? Dubya absolutely did begin that war, and he is directly and personally responsible for every death and injury resulting from it. (...) If the quagmire lasts as long as it is likely to last, then those minors are (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Taking the bait (was Re: Fair use and allusion?)
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(...) Why is that my task? I'm not asserting that your claim is false but rather that your assertions don't support it. (...) That, too, may be a matter of perspective. If your claim is that Moore is not factual, then you must document his (...) (20 years ago, 25-Jun-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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