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(...) It is not, and since 12.09.02[1] there has been even less of a stomach for it. It is everyone’s "job" to bring justice to the world... at the micro and macro level. Invading Iraq is not "justice", nor is bribing other dictators in order to get (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) Are not the consequences of doing what you're told also severe? Obviously, I don't know anything about what you do for the services, so this is hypothetical. But after enacting butchery on countless innocents, you will have a lifetime to (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The future of child care
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"Larry Pieniazek" <lpieniazek@mercator.com> wrote in message news:HBr3GH.189p@lugnet.com... (...) There was a fascinating programme on the telly recently with various ex stewards and stewardesses telling stories of their days in the air, and it was (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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Orion: It's a vexed issue. If you read some of the other articles you know that the legality of this possible war with Iraq is very much in question. If you are a catholic I think the Pope just gave you the basis for objecting to war on religious (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) I thought "I was only following orders" was no excuse? Scott A (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Why us? and if us, why this way?
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(...) (URL) always agree with Hanson but he's right this time. Even if you think there's a moral obligation (that the US somehow has gotten stuck with ) to right every wrong (which I do not! I go ONLY as far as saying we ought to clean up the messes (...) (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) For my part, I can think of no better way to support our troops than to demand that they not be placed in harm's way for an arbitrary, unjustified war. Dave! (22 years ago, 17-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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(...) This guy really touched a nerve with me. As a military member I know that we do what we're told and the consequences of not doing that is severe punishment including possible jail time. The writer of the article above essentially states that (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Just Teasing, I Have No Intention of Debating Any of This...
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Recent articles that intrigued me: ---...--- BBC brings the heat: "War with Iraq 'could be illegal'" (URL) Flatly Declares No Connection Between Saddam and al Qaeda: (URL) a joke) Associated Press reports "thousands", while BBC reports "millions" of (...) (22 years ago, 16-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: A few things...
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"Bruce Schlickbernd" <corsair@schlickbernd.org> wrote in message news:HBp9n1.1x1y@lugnet.com... (...) snipped A cool Budweiser is my first choice a really hot summer day. I wouldn´t call it "beer" though, it is more like "water-with-beerish-taste". (...) (22 years ago, 15-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) I have seen too many stupidly drunk people (mostly relatives) to even want to bother with alcohol. That and the smell of beer make me nauseous. (...) You know I think 99.9 percent of the time we all agree on the desired result, the (...) (22 years ago, 15-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | This is outrageous (not what you think) was Re: I'm just going to take a back seat..
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(...) You know I have been thinking about this since I posted my original messages. What do we do about it? I mean Afganistan is a poor example of how to "help." At the same time one must recognize that while Afgans are still living in sub-standard (...) (22 years ago, 15-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Fight this war now before our ill-equiped childeren have to do so. While we're sending our kids to dance lessons and soccer practice, they're having their kids bow down to hate americans and teaching pre-teens to fire automatic weapons. I'm (...) (22 years ago, 15-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Of course it is. The implied threat of force in disputes of this nature is part of the diplomacy. It is not a simplistic, "Do as ah sez or I'll hurt youz real bad," - unless you are incompetent, that is, or simply bent on war ("Violence is the (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The future of child care
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(...) My understanding, though correct me if I'm wrong, is that resistant strains are happening because people stop taking the drug as soon as they start feeling better rather than completing their course of treatment. Chris (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The future of child care
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(...) I think I'd rephrase. People complain too much that they suffer in the least bit. Hence, to sound parental, suffering is good for you-- it builds character. Basically, suffering tends to make a person less of a rampant complainer. In this (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I would never want people to suffer if they didn't have to--I'm not malicious. So here's the catch 22--this guy is suffering due to the child--he obviously feels like he's suffering anyway, so he sets out to 'remedy' his suffering... So should (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Big stick diplomacy is not the same as "diplomacy". Without strength, diplomacy is impotent, as Larry pointed out. One cannot negotiate from a position of weakness. That is why having a strong America is so good for the world-- because of the (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) But we did blink, if not quite as hard and fast. That's the whole point. Both sides had escalated the confrontation to the point that neither saw a way out, but continuing it was too horrifying for words. Only through diplomacy was the (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(I had to bring it up... sorry in advance for the apparent jingoism) So, Bush, Blair and Aznar are to meet in the Lajes base (Açores) next Sunday - funny how *the portuguese* were the last to know it, but that's not my point. The real question is (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Huh?? Defused through us blockading Cuba and threatening to go to war if the missiles weren't removed, then refusing to blink. That would be more like it, I would say. Diplomacy was only the communication channel, not the defuser. Oh, and (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Also, the Morrocan "affairs", in 1904 and 1907, between Germany and France. Things were *hot* back then (for the time standards, that is). Pedro (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Cuban Missle Crisis. Defused through diplomacy. Both sides got something they wanted. Perceptually Kruschev lost, and was deposed eventually because of it. -->Bruce<-- (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The future of child care
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(...) I sort of can sympathise with the flight attendant, there isn't much worse (on a NORMAL flight, mind you, not one that suffers some disaster) than a crying infant. But no, I'm not going to stick up for him, he violated rights, pretty clearly. (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Well, my def'n of 'we' woudn't necessarily be "the US", for then it woudn't be we, as in me... but I digress... ;) I was thinking more along the lines of "if we (as in 'civilized society' whether it be the UN, or such other institution) see (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Okay, I was thinking in terms of *major* global conflicts, such as war. More specifically, I'm looking for examples of diplomacy effectively dealing with an aggressor (nation or entity). JOHN (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The future of child care
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(...) It sounds like you're saying that people _should_ suffer. I don't get it. (...) lunacy. It wasn't "his" kid. If I were the parental victim in this case, my wrath would be extreme. Chris (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Are you honestly trying to say that diplomacy is universally and always unsuccessful in all cases everywhere on the planet? That nothing has ever been accomplished by diplomacy? You may wish to modify your statement or at least limit its (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The future of child care
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(...) It just got my blood up, and I didn't know where else to post. How about ot.fun, Larry? 8^) (...) Absolutely, just as I'd trust a surgeon to remove my appendix more than I'd trust my bus driver to do the same. No argument. Dave! (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The future of child care
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(...) debate about? I'm thinking no one is going to stick up for the flight attendant (assuming he actually did it, I mean). (...) Even so, there's a world of difference between a doctor who's theoretically educated in the risks of a medication (or (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Why is it the job of the US to bring justice to the world? (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) So I'm asking with all seriousness and no veil of ulterior motive--what do we do? Justice must prevail, if we are to hold to our own ideals. How do we achieve justice in this situation? Dave K (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The future of child care
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(...) But isn't that the direction of society in general right now--any bit of sniffle, any bit of pain, any slight cough, and "dammit, I want my medicine!" Any sort of uncomfortableness and we want a "quick fix"--"why should I suffer the least (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Standard of living in Iraq is now 50% below what it was pre Saddam. Could it get worse if we "lost the peace"? Sure. Do I trust Bush to do a good job? No. What if the UN and the IMF/World Bank are involved? Even worse. So, no win situation. (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Let's attack this point by point. 1. If you're going to accuse Saddam of murders he has not yet committed, then you absolutely must provide evidence that he will do so. Since you're proposing some sort of comparision between the relative (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes: <snip> (...) Yeah! Nuke 'em 'til the glow, then shoot 'em in the dark, and let God sort 'em out!! Rah Rah!! Go Team! Dave K (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) What does diplomacy accomplish? I mean *really*? Please cite examples of diplomacy working *anywhere* in the world, but not, of course, "diplomacy" conducted in surrender agreements. The fact is that "diplomacy" is merely a synonym for (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | The future of child care
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(URL) thing you know, doctors will be over-prescribing drugs for kids who have trouble sitting through a boring school day. Nah, that'll never happen... By the way, I am not equating the prudent prescription of medication for those who suffer from (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) I think it amy be in reference to a few things--the idiot in charge was replaced with, what was it, 4 other idiots? The 'Cartels', as it were? Are the Afgan folks any better off? They died during the 'military action' and now they have (...) (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: I'm just going to take a back seat.... Re: You Can Lead A Horse To Water....
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(...) Can you elaborate on that? Although we haven't won the peace yet, that war was won pretty decisively, contrary to what the naysayers predicted. (22 years ago, 14-Mar-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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