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I noticed today that people are paying around $150 - $200 for new 8880 (and 5571) sets in eBay auctions when they could be buying them from DYA shopping directly and saving (in some cases) a ridiculous amount of money. Is this just because the eBay (...) (25 years ago, 4-Sep-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme
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(...) area has items for sale for less than another area. This is a commin occurance and is supposed to occur from time to time. Some people feel this is ripping people off. I see shooting cannons selling for $10-15, yet they are still available for (...) (25 years ago, 4-Sep-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme
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Totally agree with Mike here (1) Arbitrage is a good thing. Arbitrage also drives prices to where they belong. Taking advantage of market inefficiencies in and of itself increases the efficiency of the overall market in the long run. This ground has (...) (25 years ago, 4-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme
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I may be uninformed here ... but I thought I read somewhere that the DYA thing for 8880's was over, since they ran out. Is this still the case? or could I still send in an order? -Lee. (...) (25 years ago, 4-Sep-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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Larry Pieniazek wrote in message <37D14FD9.3E0F3C70@v...er.net>... (...) I'm in way over my head when it comes to understanding economics. I'll accept your explanation of arbitrage, despite still not understanding how it is better than simply (...) (25 years ago, 6-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) It increases the efficiency of the profiteer market. The problem with applying economic theory to private transactions of rare sets, is that the good is often unique. Or rare enough to deserve that classification. Therefore the normal rules of (...) (25 years ago, 6-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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Paul Baulch wrote in message ... (...) In (...) I have to disagree in the context of the 8880 eBay sales. The DYA information has been discussed often on both LUGNET and RTL. Anyone with enough on line savy to participate in eBay auctions can find (...) (25 years ago, 6-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) I'm not sure I follow. The eBay price for supercar has indeed been lowered by the arbitrage. Isn't that making the market more efficient? (...) That is, in itself, debateable. However, it will only start a debate in .debate if it's cross (...) (25 years ago, 6-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) often (...) In that regard, there is no "money making scheme" because rare OOP sets are not readily available. The supercar is not a rare set. The sealed 8090 I sold on eBay was. Arbitrage works to bring two markets into sync with one another. (...) (25 years ago, 6-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) Economies work on an incentive system. How do I make money by telling people where to shop? I don't. So why do the work (expenditure of time and energy) for free? (...) Not really. Undivulged information could be how to fix your business. (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) The ebay price for the supercar, and most other Lego sets and Lego pieces, is indeed lower at the moment but I don't know how much of that is due to the arbitrage. eBay has a known "summer doldrums" when prices go down because fewer people are (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Foot-in-mouth disease (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Did I write this? *rolls eyes* (...) Or stayed up way too late (sans caffeine) and made a crap joke. Which apparently touched a raw nerve. Wow, I can't believe I posted that. Man, I always get delirious after about 2:30am without caffeine (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | Re: Foot-in-mouth disease (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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Paul Baulch wrote in message ... (...) I thought you were joking, but there is another from down under saying similar things right now. From now on I won't take any of you seriously! (at least with politics, etc) - at least your courteous enough not (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) The "money making scheme" works on the 'Hard-to-find Lego Set Market', of which each rare set is a subset. I agree though that the supercar isn't as rare as it once was! (...) I think that was my point really - that until DYA finds 3 dozen (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) I am really amazed by your post. Ideal world? Don't you mean "heaven" because *nothing* like that will *ever* exist here on earth! Please think through what you are saying. Nobody sells things on Ebay "marked up". It is an *auction*. Whoever (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) Yes they are! If it were not for DYA, I would have paid $300 for an 8880, because I want the set. Is that a fair price? of course it is, because in an auction the value of the object is defined by the closing price. (...) What if a buyer has (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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Richard's thinking is so muddy and his premises so out of touch with reality that it may be a waste of time to even talk about this any further, John. And if not, it's properly the topic for .debate where we have hashed it over and over. (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme
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(...) At the end of August they still had 50 8880 sets. Though Emmanuel did put a posting on LUGNET about them removing some sets from the "specials" list. -mark (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) Where is the inventory of set 8480 at? I personally haven't seen that one. -mark (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | Re: 8480 was Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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If you are in the US: check the .loc.ma groups... I've posted (and a few others as well) about the TRU in Kingson, MA as well as one in Baltimore, MD that had them on the shelf. Sadly, they are now selling (or were a few months ago) for about $20 (...) (25 years ago, 7-Sep-99, to lugnet.general)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) a) I made it obvious that it was a description of *my* idea of an ideal system. b) I pointedly described some of the problems with this. c) The first step towards making something better is to know where you want to go. If you believe that it (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) Thanks. I didn't promise that I wasn't an idealist. I didn't promise to have the same beliefs as you. In fact, I must have missed that section of the Lugnet registration altogether. If Lugnet is a place where someone can't state their opinion (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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<snipped .general from the list of newsgroups> (...) I admire your position, and agree with (both of) you on several points. However, I think you're suggesting a fix to the wrong end of the system, Frank. The fact that an auction goes to whoever (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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My point is merely that talking about economic systems and whether redistribution is a good economic policy is not on-topic for market.theory, it's more properly a topic for .debate I just delivered that message in the endearingly charming way I (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | overzealousness (was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) I willing to concede that - you are generally well intentioned, if somewhat abrasive. However, your reply to John (quoted below) doesn't say that. It says (paraphrasing) that Richard probably isn't worth talking to. (...) Hmm. Not to criticize (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) I agree that it is a fair price for you. Maybe my last line should have read "..not providing a service to *all* Lego Fans." As that includes those that aren't able to afford winning an auction. (...) Entitled.. in a Capitalistic sense yes. (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) I agree that the sets should go to those who want them the most. The only way for people to prove that they want it the most is to pay the most. Money calibrates ones desires in a quantitative way, at least when the people involved have the (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) Your ideas are close to those of John Cotton, a 16th century preacher who believed in the free market -and- helping the fellow man - at the same time. You might enjoy reading some of his sermon notes. I also agree with some of his philosphy. (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) Wouldn't it be better than just to have said: "Wouldn't it be great if we all had enough money to buy every Lego set there ever was?" Or "wouldn't it be great to have a Lego replicator?" Then I would have known you were in the realm of (...) (25 years ago, 8-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: overzealousness (was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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You're right. (25 years ago, 9-Sep-99, to lugnet.general, lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Honest Capitalism (Was Re: DYA -> eBay 8880 money-making scheme)
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(...) Right but same order of magnitude isn't the real world. Can you really claim that Larry wants that seventh Metroliner more than the ten year old who's saved up $160 but just can't manage $350? I suspect a normal ten year old saving up $160 has (...) (25 years ago, 9-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Okay, but remember that this is written in a sleepless, jet-lagged haze.. so please forgive any muddy thinking :) Picture a non-profiteering auction-sale system. Every member starts with a certain number of credits. Your credit level (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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followups set to .debate Richard Franks wrote: <snipped interesting, (but IMHO unworkable) scheme> (...) I disagree. We are all unique, and therefore different, and therefore unequal, practically speaking. Now, it was the intent of our Founding (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | t7po auto-pounce (was Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) c /hansomer/handsomer/ I was NOT alleging that some of us look more like a horse drawn carriage than others do. followups to .pun (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, lugnet.off-topic.pun, lugnet.off-topic.pun)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Workable? Who knows - I'm not a mathematician or an economist. Desirable? Heck no. We live in the real world. In the real world the person willing AND able to spend the most for something gets it. That's the way it is, and that's the way it (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Do you think that it is unworkable because of a problem with the auction mechanics, or because too many people believe too strongly in Capitalism? (...) I agree. Equal rights implies that at some level we are equal, that we deserve the same (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Real world ethics debate aside, does Lego-Distribution have to be so heavily tied to the real-world and the evolved Capitalism that we know today? If we can think of a fairer system for Lego, then why isn't that desirable? Richard (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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If there is no benefit to sellers, who is going to participate? You can set up whatever scheme you want but unless there is motivation, you're going to have a lot of buyers but no sellers. I know I certainly would not sell for less than the most the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) This is true, which is why I think a statutory 5-10% profit should be standard on such a system. That way sellers won't lose money, but they also won't feel guilty or profiteering by making a small amount. The way the proposed system works is (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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I think you should propose this idea to TLG. I think its a great idea ;-) -- Have fun! John Auctions and Trading and More at my Lego site: (URL) & IG88888888 on AOL Richard Franks wrote in message ... (...) not (...) same (...) this (...) it (...) (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) You ask the same question later on, so I'll answer it there (...) I'd say, basically, any scheme, in order to be successful, needs to have buyers AND sellers. Right now, for example, SC has lots of sellers but not enough buyers. The window (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Maybe I'm just on a different wavelength here, but I don't understand this desire to disassociate one part of our lives from reality. I work hard every day in the real world. I pay for goods and services in the real world. I earn a wage in the (...) (25 years ago, 13-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) I agree - and I think I answered it in: (URL) I won't waste disk space by repeating myself too much! :) Richard (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Who says 5-10% profit is even WORTH doing anything? So I'm supposed to buy $500 worth of closeout Lego after Christmas, spend literally weeks sorting it with my wife, then auction off the bulk of the parts I don't need for a lousy 5%? I'd have (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) I tell you what - you find some 4558's for retail price at some old store and I'll buy as many as you have at 10% over retail. Better yet, I'll give you a list of parts that I want and the sets they're available in, and I'll gladly pay you 10% (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Sure - I don't have a problem with that. It'd make a change to make a profit! (...) If I have them and I don't want then then thats fine with me. Richard (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) It would be your choice, and no-one would pass judgement upon you either way. I don't think that both systems are mutually exclusive, and I think each has its uses. (...) The names that I know probably make profit, but I don't believe that (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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In article <YZzdNx2DUuvsNBNRZYL...@4ax.com>, Mike Stanley <cjc@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> writes (...) The New Lego Order - This millennium Lugnet, next millennium the world! A thousand years of fair-play! (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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I know some of what I'm going to say has been said before, but I say it again just to re-iterate. First: Only a small number of sets fit into the "so highly desired" that their price gets ridiculous. Very few are irreplaceable (ok, so the Metroliner (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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In lugnet.market.theory, Frank Filz writes: <snipped lots of good points> Your arguments are pretty convincing - maybe now isn't a time in which we need a different system. Maybe we never will! But thanks to everyone who listened to my ponderings :) (...) (25 years ago, 14-Sep-99, to lugnet.market.theory)
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| | Re: Fair Auction? (Was Re: Honest Capitalism)
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(...) Sorry this is a reply to a very old thread, but I ran into it and it disturbed me so much I had to reply. (...) <sarcasm> But realize, that in your system, you are only allowed to want them up to ten percent more than you paid for them. Once (...) (24 years ago, 12-Jun-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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