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(...) You know what I am fed up with? I am fed up with a zillion posts saying stop crying you babies. You people who are opposed to the voicing of dissent are the ones causing most of the "stirring of the pot" right now, as far as I can see. What is (...) (20 years ago, 15-Jul-04, to lugnet.color) !!
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Alfred, you have hit the nail on the head. I feel the same way and I'm glad to know at least somebody else out there isn't going to blindly follow (and you'd have to be for this particular issue!) where the Lego company goes. To confine the color (...) (20 years ago, 15-Jul-04, to lugnet.color)
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Amen. (20 years ago, 16-Jul-04, to lugnet.color)
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Alfred, Great post! Totally agreed! Best regards, Paulo Renato (20 years ago, 16-Jul-04, to lugnet.color)
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(...) Thanks. I am glad to know I wasn't the only one. ;) (...) Well, I think you might have misunderstood me here. I _don't_ think people should be ranting about this all over Lugnet, and especially not in .general. However, people shouldn't be (...) (20 years ago, 17-Jul-04, to lugnet.color)
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(...) It's part and parcel of the denial that AFOLs are but a passing afterthought to TLC. Some people can't get over the fact that, in the scheme of all things related to Lego in the marketplace, they generally* don't count in these kinds of (...) (20 years ago, 19-Jul-04, to lugnet.color, FTX)
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(...) Lego may or may not care what we think. At their peril. And since I have already said my piece, I will add a quote of someone else's to the fray. This was not written about lego: ===quote=== (from (URL) by Rick Phillips) "Marshall Fields, the (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.color, FTX)
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(...) I've wondered about this for quite some time now...is that 5% supposed to be by straight head-count, or by total dollar sales? If it's by the head, then we should be accounting for a rather hefty chunk of their gross income. (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory, FTX)
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(...) (Marshall Fields customer stuff snipped) There is a disconnect here. The AFOL segment is largely disconnected from the Lego-buying parent segment, even if there's overlap between the two groups (at 5%, there can only be so much overlap with (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.color, FTX)
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| | What 5% ? (was Re: Fed UP!!!!!!!!)
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(...) That's where you're wrong, Justin. TLC is LOSING money. Alienating up to 5% of their customer base is NOT the way to tip the balance to MAKING money. ***** One thing I would like clarified, that Jake nor anyone at TLC seems to have done - are (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.color, lugnet.general, lugnet.lego)
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(...) Pretty sure that's sales. AFOL's probably number in the 10's of thousands at most, and child customers probably number in the 10's of millions. Assuming that guess is even moderately accurate, that'd put each AFOL buying enough annually to (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory, FTX)
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| | Re: AFOLs as a % of sales
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(...) And they'd be doing everything we ask for, instead of just doing a lot of the things we ask for. (Pick-a-Brick, bulk packs, Legends, etc...) JohnG, GMLTC (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory, FTX)
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(...) I remember Brad saying at BF03 that it was 5% of sales. However, much of those sales are at Walmart, Kmart, Target - which doesn't collect stats on who the customer is or for whom the customer is buying (adults for kids vs. adults for adults). (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory, FTX)
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(...) As well, for me, another factor is that TLC ahsn't lost this AFOL as a purchase source. Actually, I'm buying more right from TLC and less from garage sales/newspaper adds due to the convenience/don't have to clean 'em issue. Dave K (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory, FTX)
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| | 5% of what? (was: Re: Fed UP!!!!!!!!)
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Hmm, I probably should have changed the title with my previous post, so I'll do so now. (...) That might not matter depending on how they collect their data. If they do so by customer response forms packed in the sets, or online polls, they're (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory, FTX)
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(...) I have to agree with this theory. True Jake did say that AFOL's did represent a MERE 5% of sales, this does not account for the true value. Major stores do not keep track of who buys their stock (or who it is for). The actual adult fan (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory, FTX)
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(...) I remember doing calculations long ago, using myself as a 'rough guess' and coming up with pathetically small numbers. Something like 1-2% of Lego's sales; and that was based on roughly how many AFOLs were 'out there', how much Lego said it (...) (20 years ago, 20-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) Lego revenue in 2002 was reported to be $1.6 billion. 5% of revenue is $80 million. You can play up a lot of scenarios with various AFOL numbers, but you'll find it takes a lot of buyers to reasonably account for $80 million in yearly sales. (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) The big business case, it seems to me, is not our personal volume, but our influence on others by our activities. To pick just one example... How much is a 3 minute spot on a local morning newscast (in Detroit, say), extolling the virtues of (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) There are a lot of factors that should be considered there, though. Even many LUGNET users weren't sure which bulk packs were the old colors and which were the new, and it was really only publicized here on LUGNET, so it's unlikely that any (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) Certainly. Three minutes of free TV advertising isn't cheap in any market - even Detroit hehe. But I have to wonder if our train shows really have a positive effect on Lego sales. No doubt people love the layouts, but on some level I think it (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) Did I read that one correctly? ;-) -Tim XFUT -> o-t.fun (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory, lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) Those are all valid possibilities that are unknowns in any analysis. Still, I think that with a few reasonable order of magnitude conjectures it's very difficult to make a financial case that we (serious AFOLs) represent 5% of TLC revenue. I'd (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) Uh yea... it's time for me to go to bed! Spencer (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) It's not the "free" part that gets ya. It's the "with donation". (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.off-topic.fun)
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(...) Hmm... A quick check of BrickShelf shows that there are at least 24,000 members. If one out of every ten "serious" LEGO enthusiasts has an account over there, that would place our numbers at 240,000. If we spend an average of $500 a year, that (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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Just picking at a few numbers, don't disagree with the main thrust but accuracy matters. (...) That's a "Have been since it started" number. Not all members are current. Also, not all members are serious. Many have a single feedback or none. This (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) Yeah, but the results are only as accurate as the guesstimates used as inputs - GIGO you know. This debate reminds me of the various number games used to justify (or not) the belief that extraterrestrial life exists. Since there are so many (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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Hello! (...) I'm very much upset with the replacement of the hinges. In particular the fact that we will never see brown classic hinges in any new set enrages me. And there is no lugnet.click-hinges so where am I allowed to complain about them? Bye (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.color)
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(...) That's never been my assumption, but it's a good place to start. While all Lugnet members are AFOLs, not all of them would qualify in my book as "serious AFOLs". I should also clarify that my definition of "serious AFOL" is probably different (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) I think we are in overall agreement. Just to clarify, I was talking about BrickSHELF not BrickLINK. I viewed a total of three folders on the "Recent" page there and found a BS member with an ID in the 24000+ range, which is how I estimated the (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) They've never said that. 5% is simply 5%. Each company decision has a business case behind it. Certain AFOL wants have favorable cases, others don't. You may believe their business analysis is inherently flawed in some way, but unless you can (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) Minor detail: not all LUGNET members are AFOLs, since AFOL stands for Adult Fan Of LEGO and only people 18+ are adults. I am a TFOL, by the way, and what you would call a 'serious AFOL' Nathan Wells (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory, FTX)
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(...) It would help if I realised Chris was talking about BrickShelf instead of BrickLink. I still think the point stands though... not all users are current users and not all users are serious AFOLs, it's (somewhat more?/about as/nearly as?) likely (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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"Larry Pieniazek" <larry.(mylastname)@...areDOTcom> wrote in message news:I17q8K.EHH@lugnet.com... [ .... snipped ... ] (...) early (...) just (...) [ ... snipped ... ] I am not sure I think the Chasm model applies to this market but I may be (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) I don't think it does either. At least not completely, because the market isn't a shifting one (at least not at the like LEGO/don't like LEGO level) I'm just drawing the analogy to the very first people in that model that take something up (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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(...) When the AFOL community asks for something and the response is that we represent only 5% of their market so don't expect anything, that does send the message that we are not important to them. (If they want to give me "only 5%" of the money (...) (20 years ago, 21-Jul-04, to lugnet.market.theory)
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Why is that Lego guy so upset? Why was it kept a secret until the last minute? Which color are they going to change next? Plus Lego and Jake or whatever his name is, doesn't really care. Remember Bagdad Bob? All is all right. No problems. John P (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.color)
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(...) Hi John, Bagdad Bob did good! Blay well! (URL) my oldgrey Homepage: (URL) (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.color, FTX)
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(...) I'm beside myself with disappointment on that one. (...) There have been repeated proposals for the formation of a group, "lugnet.parts". That group hasn't been formed yet. It certainly seems like it would be the place for that topic (and many (...) (20 years ago, 22-Jul-04, to lugnet.color)
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| | Re: What 5% ? (was Re: Fed UP!!!!!!!!)
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(...) Yes, they lost money in 2003. Yes, this is bad. No, AFOLs still don't count. From the 2003 Lego Annual Report: "At the end of 2004, it was decided to change the business strategy and set out a series of specific intiatives in order to ensure a (...) (20 years ago, 30-Jul-04, to lugnet.color, FTX)
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| | Re: What 5% ? (was Re: Fed UP!!!!!!!!)
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(...) *Either* way? Now that's just silly. If AFOL's were 5% of the customers (granted, they aren't), and your typical AFOL buys 20 times as much annually as a typical child's parents (not an overly bad estimate, I think), then we're about 51% of (...) (20 years ago, 31-Jul-04, to lugnet.color)
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