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This is a repost because FTX messed the URLs up. I'll study up on FTX when I have more time. Larry, can you please remove the previous post that matches this one? Man I love building with LEGO. It is such a relaxing and satisfying hobby. I’ve got a (...) (20 years ago, 24-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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Wow, coolness. This is a good day! The leg is comming along nicely. Kevin, thank you for posting your progress. This is great. e (20 years ago, 24-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: ... (...) ... (...) I notice that the cylinder with the weight on it is the vertical one in the middle, and that it's only a third of the way from the hip to the knee. Is one cylinder going to be enough to (...) (20 years ago, 24-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Like Mark said, there's going to be quite a bit of weight on the main cylinder. That's where you're planning on having several cylinders to hold the weight, right? So, you're looking at about 5 per leg, 8 legs, or 40 cylinders? (plus other (...) (20 years ago, 26-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) If we use 3 large cylinders each with an area of 0.2 square inches per leg, and the expected force is 5 pounds per leg, then we get a required pressure of 8.3 pounds per square inch. If we use two large cylinders, we'll need 12.5 pounds per (...) (20 years ago, 26-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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I just had a silly, yet kind of cool idea. I'm not sure what you know about the Spybots, but if you have two Spybots, then from Spybot A, you can tell the direction, distance, and orientation of Spybot B. (yes, from A you can tell which direction B (...) (20 years ago, 27-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Oh, I *so* want to see this. I'll be the first to loan you a spybot for this - if this project does get to this stage (and you find a gymnasium big enough), I'd just love to see a video of you three walking into a room, tapping the parent, and (...) (20 years ago, 27-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I have two gigamesh bodies floating around here somewhere. Kevin (20 years ago, 28-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Are you sure you guys aren't shilling for the Lego company? I've kind of avoided Spybots as an unnecessary expense. Now I'm thinking of buying all 4. (20 years ago, 28-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I'm quite sure I'm not getting anything from LEGO. On the contrary, LEGO has been getting money from me. Kevin (20 years ago, 28-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) hmm. Here's an interesting idea. How many Spybots do you think we can get to show up at Brickfest? :) Talk about a big flock.... or swarm... What do you call a group of scorpions? Steve (20 years ago, 28-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Scary. Kevin (20 years ago, 28-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Actually I think in real life they would all climb the back of the mother. (URL) Now that will be a challenge to recreate in LEGO. - David (20 years ago, 28-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I didn't see any comment from Eric about the proposed parts list. It's around 50 pistons, and 100 switches. Is that OK? And, do we know how big this thing is, yet? Also, I'm going to have to do the Spybot/family thing. We can try to get (...) (20 years ago, 29-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Dunno. I'm mulling around the leverage issue. I don't see why the feet should have to rise more that the amount the piston expands/contracts. If I can figure out how to make the leverage work (and pack it all in nicely), we could be back to 8 (...) (20 years ago, 29-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Considering the flex in the body/leg and the overall size/weight of this guy, it may be good to raise it up a bit more. Maybe 2x the normal throw? With that in mind, that still only 2/leg or 16. (...) I was thinking about a diff-drive walker (...) (20 years ago, 29-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Hey guys, I'm standing by, forgive my absence. I have the parts to contribute for structural things, the sheer amount of switches and pistons are out of my range. I do have Rotation Sensors and greeble doohickies. I also have three Spybots. (...) (20 years ago, 29-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Ok, so how should we proceed? How many switches and pistons DO you have? We could scale back the design to fit your inventory, or come up with another solution. We could all pitch in parts, but that will mean SSClagorpion will have a limited (...) (20 years ago, 29-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I was under the impression that Kevin's supply of pnuematics were around 100 pistons and switches. I have a small hand full of the new types and less than a dozen of the old type. IMHO, that's why I orriginally wanted to create the Leg truss (...) (20 years ago, 29-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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In lugnet.technic, Eric Sophie wrote: -snip- (...) Wait wait, I was poking fun and being a bit of a wise @$$, later I felt these comments might have been in bad taste. My apologies if I was out of line. e (20 years ago, 30-Apr-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I know that I have at least 100 pistons, at at least twice that many switches. I'll have to disassemble some projects to make them available. I'll want to document caterpillar, and complete PhD before I disassemble it. After that no problems. (...) (20 years ago, 1-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Ok, I think we just need to proceed with the full-blown plan, and worry about where the parts are coming from later. (maybe it was just me that was thinking about that) I've just wrapped up a local event, and am ready to focus a great deal (...) (20 years ago, 3-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Steve, I have lots of example geometries on brickshelf: (URL) (...) (20 years ago, 3-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Two questions. First, do you have a picture like this for an old style switch? (URL) assume the geometry of the switch lever is about the same. Second, this reversable motor looks good. Can we use that to walk? (URL) the choice of running a (...) (20 years ago, 3-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I do in my "Mindstorms Masterpieces" book, but I don't have any on-line. It is similar, except that the pivot point of the old switch is lower. (...) Nope. SSClagorpion does not walk using a simple pneumatic motor configuration. (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 3-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I just came up with an idea for how to make the legs work. It should make it so the pneumatic cylinder doesn't have to support the weight of the creature. The idea is to have the legs "lock" into place, when they are down. Think about the legs (...) (20 years ago, 4-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Now, I have a question about the "logic" behind walking sideways. When SSClagorpion is done walking sideways, and it starts walking forward, will the legs all be in the same position in/out, or will 1/2 be in, while 1/2 are out? Assuming the (...) (20 years ago, 4-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I like this idea a lot. It sounds very good to me. (...) I agree. Very cool. (...) Assymetry in the leg length might make some legs hold more weight than others, making it harder to lock. (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 4-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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Hey wow, I see it now. When I sit down to build, I'll work with this in mind. Good one. e (20 years ago, 4-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Below is a diagram of the 8 legs as one of the two points where all eight feet are down. A\_ \B _/D C/ E\_ \F _/H G/ Assuming that all the hips sweeps are the same, for example compressed means swept backwards, and expanded means swept (...) (20 years ago, 4-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) ... (...) ... (...) Will it be possible to expand or contract all sideways walking pistons at the same time? Or is that like walking forward, where 1/2 will be expanded, while the other 1/2 are contracted? (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) This eliminates the concerns about piston leverage for putting the feet down and keeping them weight bearing. This allows us to have the legs be longer, more like a real scorpion, but this brings us to the next leverage problem: (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Looking at SSClagorpion from the front........ and only looking at one of the two leg groups: __ / / Down __ \ \ Down __ \ \ Up __ / / Up In this case we'll need to have half the sidways pistons expanded and half contracted all the time. (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Here's a quick example of what I'm talking about. (URL) like it will work. (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Right. I think. So, where (side to side) will the legs be when it's walking forward? (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Like this: __ / \ So when we stop walking sideways, we have to force all the sidewalking pistons to expand. You said this didn't you. Kevin (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) It might not work quite as well as you seem to think. Locking mechanisms of the sort that you're considering have a little "pop" because they don't lock at their point of greatest extension. In order to get the leg to lock into position, it (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) huh huh they said "hip sweeps", I love this project. e (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) huh huh he said "It might not work..." I love this project. e (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I thought about this. The two pieces that "lock" don't need to go beyond their point of greatest extension. The reason for going beyond the PoGE is to lock, so nothing else is required to hold it in place. However the pneumatic piston will be (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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In lugnet.technic, Steve Hassenplug wrote: Here is my first attempt at a locking leg, locked in the down position. (URL) is the leg lifted off the ground: (URL) is the leg down, with the sidewalking piston contracted. (URL) lock mechanism allows for (...) (20 years ago, 5-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) So what happens if one set of legs manages to lock, but doesn't want to unlock, while the other set of legs never locks at all? It's possible that the front/back leg pairs will behave differently if the back legs are longer like on a real (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) If things do not want to unlock, the entire walking sequence stops. The whole walking sequence requires that each set of pistons in turn completely transition from closed to open, or open to closed. (...) Transitions happen when the switches (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I don't know if this timing diagram helps explain the verbiage above. Forward slashes represent the pistons expanding, and the backward slashes represent the pistons contracting. Horizontal lines represent unchanging pistons. When all four (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Makes sense to me. Makes sense to me. Makes sense to me. Makes sense to me. :) The prototype leg looks very good. However, I do have one question. Given the angle of the leg, there will be pressure on the sidestep piston to pull the piston (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Welcome to the "Department of Redundancy Department". LOL! (...) I don't think so as long as the piston head is not flexed too much side to side. Too much misaligment can cause seal leakage. Also I can try to add a mechanical stop that (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I suspect once you get the switches added, there will be more support. But it seems like a stop at one or both ends would not be a bad idea. (...) Yes, that leg looks very good. (...) The touch sensors don't have to be in the feet. They could (...) (20 years ago, 6-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Hey guys. Just checking in to give my Friday Hugs and Kisses. Let's return to basics and give a breakdown of current studies and efforts. Where do we stand with our beloved, yet silly named project? I personnaly know, but let's lay it out for (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I started to add the trusses needed to add hip sweep (I'm told Eric likes that phrase), and connecting legs together, but they are *very* far apart. Can;t even do cross bracing with 1x15 liftarms. I'm working on another prototype that has the (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Kevin, I just finished looking at the Leg designs you have made. They are elegant as they are deceptively simplistic in their appearence. Great Job. You raise a good point. When the hip sweeps, (heh heh) each leg left and right, you'll need (...) (20 years ago, 7-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) slight problem. When SSClagorpion is walking sideways, due to the LEG SWEEP the legs will be positioned as show above. However, when he takes a step left, legs A, B, E & F would be stepping forward(up)/left and C,D,G & H are stepping (...) (20 years ago, 8-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) All along, I'd thought that it would zig/zag as it walks sideways, as you've noted. But I was wrong. A, D, E and H are in one leg group. This means that A, and E are walking forward/left, and D and H are walking backard/left. This means that (...) (20 years ago, 8-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Thanks, Eric. (...) I think this will make forward/backward walking do a side to side stagger, as Steve realized sideways walking was going to work. (...) If we measure the total distance front to back that the foot travels, this tells us the (...) (20 years ago, 8-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) ... (...) ... (...) How about if you make up a proposal? Actually, two. First, get out your pen, paper, calculator, sliderule, and excel spreadsheet, and figure out how many pistons & switches are required. I'd suggest two options: A) No (...) (20 years ago, 8-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I used my brain..... (...) leg_cost = 2 pistons, 4 switches n_legs = 8 legs_cost = 8(2 pistons, 4 switches) = 16 pistons, 32 switches timing_cost = 2 pistons, 2 switches reverse_cost = 8 switches turn_cost = 8 switches total_cost = legs_cost + (...) (20 years ago, 8-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I started putting together the trusses needed to articulate the hip and hook two hips together, and found that this leg design: (URL) to be compacted. I imagine the body truss made of long side rails, that the hips connected to. When I started (...) (20 years ago, 8-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) hmm. I didn't think about doing that. :) (...) Does that include the sideways_out_force? It may be about 8 switches short. But I don't think that matters. (...) Yes. I'm fine with that, also. Eric? (...) Looking at the totals on top, I think (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Hey in case you guys are interested the 8455 is currently on sale in aus (again!!) for about US$75 plus shipping ;) ROSCO (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) It's been on sale for US$79.95 from the US site for a few weeks now. If you're going to follow along at home on this project, order a bunch now. Sounds like you'll need a lot! (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Hey, who says out project name is silly?!?!? That sounds like something Courtney would say! Anyway..... I've got 8 legs built, and six framed together to get an idea of dimensions. I've been trying to work on trusses stuff, but I'm running out (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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Steve, You seem to be keeping track of the inventory..... What all did you plan to have packed into the torso of SSClagorpion? I'd like to scale the size of the torso back by shortening the legs a bit. I'm feeling the scale is too large. If I have (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) The body will need to hold 2 RCXs, 1 Spybot, and 1 compressor. The Spybot would be the head, and the RCXs should face the Spybot (for IR). I'm pretty sure facing the back of the Spybot is fine. The compressor size is up to you. Why not use (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I think eight backhoes will be enough. :) And, the bucket on back may make a good claw... (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Wider? I was thinking the opposite. (...) Do you mean an LDrawfile? (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) It was a joke Steve...... Gotta get those studless beam haters some stimuli. Studded beams make a lot of sense in the body, because of their superior strenght. (...) Patience Steve. I spent *all* day yesterday and this morning getting this (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Grrr... I resemble that remark! Use my name in vain if you like [1], I just ask you give me a three-hour tour of the project when it's complete <gdr> ;-) -Tim [1] Dave! knows what I'm talking about. (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I wasn't sure if you were on some studless-beam kick... :) I think the body needs to be wider, for scale. (...) I know this takes time. (...) I was thinking about the leg lock & pistion that you set-up. -- I came up with an arm design. I (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I tend to build with studless parts unless studs are needed, but in this case we don't need the studs, but will need the strength (and parts with the right number of holes). (...) Is there an echo in here? (...) Yes, it will be interesting to (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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OK, here is an interesting problem I'd not thought about. When the legs are like this (only down legs shown) A\_ B _/D C E\_ F _/H G The body tips over toward leg G. I'm sure this would happen to all four corners. I know that I need to strengthen (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) (URL) above picture shows a body that is longer than it is wide. I'm going to rearchitect the legs so that they get longer and more swept back as you move toward the back legs. This should end the issue falling over. I'm also going to try to (...) (20 years ago, 9-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) About the sideways walking motion. 1. It would be cool. 2. Can Kevin include this without a major redesign? 3. Can we approximate the same intended direction through alternate or standard locomotion? 4. The sideways motion makes for an (...) (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Ha Ha! I got Tim in trouble, lol! (...) Oh there's my baby now! Growing. ok, one thing. The body. I gotta teach ya. The quick fit to test the feel is cool. However the real deal, well, we'll guild that lilly. The central area of the body can (...) (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Ha ha. (...) If we can get this project done you and RTL have to buy the three of us beers at BF. (...) He can buy us beers too. Pop, or soda, depending on where he's from. e (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic, lugnet.org.ca.rtltoronto)
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(...) oh hey wow, I see how the motion is transfered back towards the rear of the structure. Neat. Hey, but we are gonna aim to make a robotic claw aren't we, in addition to the sensor funtionality you mentioned. Right? This is where Kevin and I (...) (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) If I ever get my hands on the little guy, I'll make sure and bring it to a CLB (Chicago LEGO Builders) meeting. :) Steve ps If the guys from rtl want to see it, they're welcome to come to the meeting, also... :) (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Eric, How much of the above message did you read? :) Never mind, don't answer that. :) Yes, I'm planning on making a pneumatic claw. Looking at the diagram Kevin posted, I expect to re-build the arm. I'm just playing around with ideas. Steve (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Maybe. Maybe not! Kevin (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Isn't saying is name *always* in vain? LOL! (...) Right. I agree totally. As I said in a previous post, I'm starting over. What I learned is that the locking leg works, and that I need to reconsider what it takes to make it stay upright based (...) (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I don't think we need to worry TOO much about easing forces on the lock. My testing shows it works quite well. But there are many stresses on other parts as the legs get longer, and more angled, so moving them in is not a bad idea. (...) I (...) (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) <snip> (...) I was assuming this. (...) I've had difficulties finding videos of scoprions ambulating. I keep getting hits on "Scorpion King". Ack (...) I agree. (...) As far as the legs go, there are six states. But there are two timing (...) (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: -snip- wow, great post kevin. e (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I know, I know, I was just asking to ask. Also, in a round about way I was both aknowledging your Arm(s) build and at once relegating my duty to the tail build. (...) sweet. e (20 years ago, 10-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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Steve, What are all the responsibilities of the spybot, and the two RCXs. One of the RCX's must control the two motors that cause forward/backward mux and turning mux. Another motor for sideways. Do you also need a motor to control the pneumatic (...) (20 years ago, 12-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) The main responsibility of the Spybot is to process IR commands from the remote. That will give us the ability to control SSC via remote. The Spybot has two built-in motors. Those can control some auxiliary (non-critical) function, like (...) (20 years ago, 12-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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ok, so we have about 200 messages in this thread. I'm going to start changing the subject to actually include the... subject. But still keep SSClagorpion, for those who chose to skip the thread. Kevin was talking about a compressor based on an RC (...) (20 years ago, 13-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Yes, it is, assuming you have enough pressure for the circuit to advance though the sequence. (...) OK. As I said in an earlier post, I'm working on a "dual action" pump compresssor. I've got two "Pneumatic Distribution Block 2 x 4 with (...) (20 years ago, 14-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: Using two RC racer motors, two large pistons (that's right, pistons), and three Pneumatic Distribution Brick with Check Valve (waiting for the fourth from Bricklink), I've made a respectable compressor. Two (...) (20 years ago, 15-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Hi Steve, Were you able to come up with anything in your compressor experiments? The topic of compressors is an interesting one. As you know there are many many solutions to this problem. The most popular is Ralph Hempel's design that you can (...) (20 years ago, 17-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) First of all, no. I have nothing interesting in the world of compressors. I got sidetracked building an all mechanical walker that has no gravity well. I think it's a cool idea, which I may revisit later, but I think this design requires more (...) (20 years ago, 17-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Airflow is what causes this. The two pumps both hook up to the same size hoses with the same size nipples, but an identical length of stroke on the larger pump is pushing quite a bit more air than the small pump. There's a limit to how fast (...) (20 years ago, 17-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) You should go study Dr. C. S. Soh's website for a great foundation on compressors. (...) I've not studied that. I think that the max pressure that LEGO can handle is constrained by hoses staying on fittings, not what the pumps can deliver. (...) (20 years ago, 17-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) That is absolutely right. Nice one David. It makes me think we could have high preformance pistons by playing with the variables at both ends. In practice, a boring out of the nipple hole diameter is like what boosted the horse power in my (...) (20 years ago, 20-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) So, we're talk'n about compressors. This is where I'm thinking we should layout some questions so those who are following along (like me, until I get my hands on the eleptapod). Heh I just made that word up! Steve, Kevin, if you could, please, (...) (20 years ago, 20-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I think Kevin has the right idea with racking up a whole bunch of pumps on the same motor. If everything pumps into one air tank anyways, you're going to be restricted to what can go through a single nipple, but there's no reason why you can't (...) (20 years ago, 20-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) One thing I noticed is that the example pump someone showed earlier has both output lines joined into one T connector, to make a single output line. If airflow is a problem, then wouldn't it be better to keep them separate, with two or more (...) (20 years ago, 21-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I was assuming that the model would use whatever air pressure it was given, unless the state machine was shut off. Given the volume of air that it will take to make the circuit progress, an air tank won't hold enough air to help. Based on this (...) (20 years ago, 21-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I feel better knowing that. (...) Sure. I like games. (...) Hopefully one big compressor composed of three pistons each acting as a double acting pump, driven by RC racer motors. Each RC racer motor is controlled by a battery pack. (...) The (...) (20 years ago, 21-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Yeah, air tanks on a compressor are really only useful when you're using short bursts of more air than the compressor can keep up with (so you need a reservoir to draw from to keep pressure up through each burst) or you're using way less than (...) (20 years ago, 21-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Here's an important question. What will be the limiting factor in how fast this beast can move? Is it: A) Travel time for the pneumatic cylinders or B) Volume of air available? I'm under the impression it will be limited by the volume of air (...) (20 years ago, 21-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Steve, A very interesting set of questions and logic. I don't know the answer, but can add insights that are related. As the available volume/pressure increases, the pistons expand and contract faster. I don't know if there is a linear (...) (20 years ago, 21-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) The limiting factor with the speed of the model is composed of two things: 1. The total volume of air between the valve that is switched and the cylinders that were previously supplied before the valve was switched. 2. The rate of supply of (...) (20 years ago, 22-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Neither. It's C) The sexy lady SSClagorpion walking the other direction that catches his eye. (20 years ago, 22-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Lessee, 5m tube vs. 5cm (or .05m) tube...I'd guess something approaching 100x as long? :) I'm guessing you meant to type something a little different there... Anyways, by my eye, the flex-system tube OD is roughly the same as the OD of the (...) (20 years ago, 22-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) This type of valve will be used to turn the power on/off (via polarity switch) for the compressor. Instead of needing an overpressure valve, the compressor will be turned off, saving batteries. I think we all agree, sometimes you really need (...) (20 years ago, 23-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Yes, the 100x length difference will give a significant balloon effect. I suppose realistically 40cm to 5cm would be a fairer comparison. Set 8868 came with a 5m bundle of pneumatic tube. The use of flex tubing in sets began with sets 8837 (...) (20 years ago, 23-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) I have another idea for an interesting test using air tanks. Set up a pneumatic engine and add an extra piston to ONE side. (so there are three total pistons, and two move at the same time) See show the speed compairs with vs without airtanks. (...) (20 years ago, 24-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Schedule
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(...) You know what? I was looking at the numbers, and this is not going to happen before Brickfest DC '04. Maybe if we all lived in the same town, but considering shipping and extra problem solving time in the schedule, it's just not going to (...) (20 years ago, 24-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Schedule
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(...) That may be, but on Maslow's hierarchy of need, food, clothing and shelter come before LEGO. (...) When I started this little project with Eric, we had no schedule. I know it is frustracting, but thatnks for the understanding. First and (...) (20 years ago, 25-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Schedule
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(...) Boy, I thought Maslow was only used in those US Navy leadership training school that bore people to death. I remember doing an oral presentation on Maslow. -Orion (20 years ago, 25-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Ok, so I got two of these in the mail yesterday (thanks bricklink). But, I wasn't able to figure out too much about how they work. Anyone know where I can find an internal diagram of what exactly, this thing does? Steve (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Does this help? (URL) (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Steve (20 years ago, 28-May-04, to lugnet.technic)
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I finally had some LEGO time. Given the rate that RC Racer motors suck up current, Using two pumps with two motors and two battery packs, is about the best I can do. I did some measuring and calculating (only outer diameters :^( A large piston has (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Well that depends on how they're routed down the line. If they all pass through a single hose at any point, bang goes your bandwidth. ROSCO (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Not necessarily. If they're compressing in a rotating series, your output at any given moment is much smaller than if they were going off all at the same time, and the more positions you can get in the series, the steadier your stream of (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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Are you going to make sure that all your control logic is done with small pistons? That would seem to save a lot of air, and thus perhaps also speed the system up quite a bit. (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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Often, at work on Friday afternoon, we have informal discussions about stuff completely unrelated to work. This morning, I stood up and looked over my cube walls (not hard, they're only 4 ft tall) and said I had a question. I didn't get much (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Ok, so my co-worker (with a degree in physics) said (after many calculations) that the Work is directly related to the Volume. Assuming 6 small pistons pump the same volume as 1 large piston, it will take the same amount of work. Keep in mind, (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) One thing not represented in your calculations is time. Compressing one large pump takes more force than it takes to compress one small pump. With six small pumps seperated by 60 degress of phase. We can compress/expand six small pumps in the (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Hi Benton, In my experience small pistons do not control switches very well. They only produce 1/4 the force a large piston does. I've made one small piston walker (URL) . It uses two pistons per switch, and the switches were chosen (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) ... (...) That's what I was trying to say above. Sometimes, I think faster than I type, so all the details don't make it to my fingers... Yes, adding pistons at various angles will help even out the "work" required. So, 2 large pistions at 180 (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) I knew what you were saying, but I was explaining it for those who couldn't read between the lines...... I'm going to try a radial design. Medium pulleys have six pin holes, so I suspect that I'll have two groups of six. I have yet to come up (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) If you rotate the pulley 90 degrees on the axle, the holes will be in the right place. Another option is to mount the other end of the pistons at 30 degrees (like a rotary engine) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) You are absolutely right of course.... You'd think I'd have a better understanding of hexagons than that. :^) Kevin (20 years ago, 3-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) While a rotary design will probably be a bit more powerful, laying them all flat could be more versatile. You could place cylinders anywhere you've got a little open space, rather than having to make space for a bulky cluster of them. (URL) (...) (20 years ago, 3-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Hi David, Thanks for the ideas. I'll consider the planar design concept (done them before with large pumps), but first I want to try radial. I'm curious which design would have less moving parts? Less moving parts, less friction, higher (...) (20 years ago, 4-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) From what I've been told of mechanical physics, part distortion is also a concern. There's a tradeoff between making the pump design sturdier and keeping the overall weight/size down. Flat component pumps can be squeezed into available empty (...) (20 years ago, 5-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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I know how much Steve likes to wait, so...... I got enough three blade rotor parts (from Gigamesh, (URL) ) to make a hexagonal frame for my radial compressor. I've got pictures: (URL) the 44374's that the pump bases are hooked to. Very aesthetically (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) I was wondering about that. Wait, that doesn't seem quite right. They all connect together, and that assembly is attached to a medium pully, right? So, the assembly moves back and forth (actually, in a circle) two full studs. Is that the (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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ahh the comressor. create the heart of the beast. standing by. e (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) I know. (...) The medium pulley connects the six pump arms into an assembly that is moved around by the 40T gear. The radius of the circle swept by the inner pin holes is 1.5 studs, not 2. So the pumps only travel 3/4 of the maximum distance. (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) I swear. Eric reminds me of a manager. Every once-in-a-while, he sticks his head in the door and asks how everything's doing. Before we can answer, he's on his way to his next project... :) (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Chop Chop! I want to see @ss's and elbows! I want to see little dimples on your swollen fingers! I want to be able to read the LEGO backwards on your finger tips! What do you mean a project of this kind has never been done before! I walked to (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) I had to steal cams from my son, but I improved the geometry. I cannot figure out where all my cams went....... Improved geometry. (URL) test it soon. Kevin (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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-snip- (...) WOW! That is genious, you get to go home at 4:45 today. e (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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(...) That is just too cool! I hope it does well in your tests, it's just too pretty not to... :-) Of course, I only have like 1/3 the pumps necessary to build it, so I'll have to order two more and make the half-sided version. Cheers, Mark (almost (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Check with DACTA on their small pump/small piston service pack. They are about $10 and you get pump, piston *and* hoses. For the same price you can get a pump only on bricklink. (...) Thanks for the positive feedback. Soory about the roast! (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Here is a link: (URL) (20 years ago, 9-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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Sometimes it is not easy to get perfect geometry out of LEGO. I've been wrestling with geometries to get the pumps just the right distance apart, and also having the compression strokes force the pumps through thier full range. I ended up using a (...) (20 years ago, 16-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) This sort of work is much easier, if you're working with larger distances. Getting a circle between 2 and 3 studs wide to spin is NOT easy. Good luck. (...) You should post a screen-shot or two. I'm interested to see what kind of data you came (...) (20 years ago, 16-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Thanks..... Like I said using two 1x2's in an L shape got me the square root of two (1.414) or diameter of 2.828..... All the holes in 1x2's are axle holes, so the make the center connector of the radial compressor free to turn I had to use a (...) (20 years ago, 16-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) ^ six (...) I found it on bricklink: (URL) (20 years ago, 17-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: <snip> (...) Here is the picture. (URL) got the whole compressor back together and it is mechanically sound. Whether this provides a superior compressor or not, I've got to try to use the same geometry to (...) (20 years ago, 17-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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Kevin, it looks like you are making strides to create a sound compressor. This will be of great importance (of course) as this will be the heart of the beast. Once this stage of the project is conqured, a major hurdle will have been obtained. Good (...) (20 years ago, 17-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) flat liftarms to get you a pin hole in the right location to use the sheaves? (20 years ago, 17-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Hi David, I'm having a difficult time envisioning this. Could you create one and take a picture? Kevin (20 years ago, 17-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | SSClagorpion - The Sequencer (long)
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Airline flights offer long stretches of nothing to do. I use these times to brainstorm into my my LEGO idea logbook. On a flight to Boston, I figured out how to graphically design pneumatic sequencers. This led to creations such as inchworm, (...) (20 years ago, 3-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Sequencer (long)
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(...) Sounds good. I think the whole thing will go faster, if there are less pistons to move, because less air is required. So, how many pistons are there? It looks like just the five. Can we put sensors on pistons A & C to determine which state (...) (20 years ago, 4-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Sequencer (long)
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(...) Piston A and C are not replicated. Piston B has three copies (making 4 legs in leg group 1). Piston D has three copies too. Piston E has seven copies (a total of 8). (...) Yes. (...) I want leg lock for when it has been shut off for a long (...) (20 years ago, 4-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Sequencer (long)
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(...) But, we have the same number of pistons making the same number of changes. It is faster because now more of the piston transitions happen at the same time. Kevin (20 years ago, 4-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Sequencer (long)
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(...) -Snip- Facinating, sheesh, your smart. I see the beauty. e (20 years ago, 5-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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Well, I've finished moving into my new place. One more roadblock to LEGO building removed. I had to unsort all my LEGO a few weeks ago. The sort has started. So far I've got detailed sort of technic axles, gears, connectors, pulleys, electrical, (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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(...) True that! (...) tsk tsk (...) :) (...) Wow, how great is that! Champion Lego Fans doing their duty. (...) Wonderful, maybe we can hold a Session after all. In this time of rejoyce, let us take a minute to remember the reasons for our little (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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(...) Excellent!! Any chance of SSClagorpion mk I travelling with you? ROSCO (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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(...) All I have to show for SSClagorpion is two possible choices for compressor. Once I pick a compressor, I can build the torso out from there. SSClagorpion has been set aside because of preparations for BrickFest. I have these things ready to (...) (20 years ago, 31-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Thanks Eric, I have a progress report, boss.... ;^) I have completed two compressors. The first is basically a two large pump compressor driven by two RC racer's motors (very powerful). This compressor is implemented with one large piston and (...) (20 years ago, 31-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: I have (...) -snip- eggsalad. Plus we'll be sitting down to discuss the project. e (20 years ago, 31-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Report. (...) That is so cool, we should leave the compressor exposed some how so it could be seen. *Ahem, carry on. (...) Plus is that sweet radial design x2! *Ahem, yes. (...) Radially. (makes "OK" symbol with hands) (...) Right, hence the (...) (20 years ago, 31-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Actually, as I have always emphasied, the large pump is better if operated furiously by hand. (...) You should get one of the Speed Computer thing instead of relying on your ears and maybe lose your hearing. (...) Hey, what will you be doing (...) (20 years ago, 1-Aug-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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(...) For those of you that missed SSClagorpion at Brickfest... well, sorry. That was your first chance to get a glimps of the beast. Ok, so it was really just the heart of the beast, and the heart wasn't pumping, but that's not the point... :) The (...) (20 years ago, 17-Aug-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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(...) I was in a rush getting ready for BrickFest. I changed over my radial compressor from yellow to red (SSClagorpion's official color). In the process I accidentally cut the hoses on four pumps. I've changed the outer bracing structure so that (...) (20 years ago, 21-Aug-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | pneumatic help
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Kevin- I am in the design phase of my crane (the Demag AC 500-1 SSL) and currently I am working on the control system for the pneumatics. Following Ross Crawford's idea, I came out with something like this: (URL) am trying to control four pneumatic (...) (20 years ago, 22-Aug-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: pneumatic help
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(...) Hi Vineet, I'll see if I can help. Your desciption "control four pneumatic pistons individually, and simultaneously having them controlled by one master switch" does not seem to match the second diagram. The primary reason is that you have (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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During Brick Fest 2004, the 3 Masters of the SSlagorpion got together for lunch to discuss the current state of the project. Kevin showed us his awesome radial compressor during his demos. Steve spoke to us during lunch about logic control and (...) (20 years ago, 4-Sep-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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In lugnet.technic, Eric Sophie wrote: <SNIP> (...) <SNIP> (...) Ok Is Kevin looking at using the Circa Brickfest compressor or the Design I gave him mid August for the compact 12 Pump Radial Comprressor? Just curious.. I was kinda hoping my design (...) (20 years ago, 17-Sep-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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(...) I'm interested in sticking with my own design, primarily because it is my design. You design is very compact and especially good looking though and I compliment you on it. Right now, propgress on SSClagorpion is on hold. My personal life is (...) (20 years ago, 18-Sep-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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Ok, It's December now...any status changes? I've gotten exhausted holding my breath, so I've begun my own.. but must wait until January to buy the rest of the parts I need... (...) (19 years ago, 11-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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Hi Joseph, There is not much for new news. I have done some study of "limited throw" pneumatics. One of the things that makes the larger pneumatic pistons slower than the small ones is the 6x volume difference compared to small pistons. The travel (...) (19 years ago, 18-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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Well I have a leg design at current using 2 large cylinders that gets ~21 cycles/minute with 1 leg and a 6 way radial pump (I don't have enough pumps to fill out the full 12 way...) but it's sturdy and strong and fully self cycling...the problem is (...) (19 years ago, 18-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) 21 cyles per second is good. It will go much slower with 7 more legs. Do you plan on having all the legs be self cycling? How will the legs stay coordinated? I plan on one pison for vertical, and one (maybe two) for horizontal. Do you know the (...) (19 years ago, 19-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Yeah, I'm estimating 1~2 cycles per minute with all 8. (...) The very reason I'm looking at a linkage solution.... (...) All lego accept possibly for the string/wire with crimped loops to loop over pins. MODIFIED LEGO! Never.. Back back.. foul (...) (19 years ago, 20-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I don't think Kevin knows how to use LDraw. :) Kevin, we need to talk about the next 'step' for SSClagorpion... Steve (19 years ago, 20-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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I'm just checking the inside of my eyelids for leaks. e THE BEAST WILL LIVE. (19 years ago, 21-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Aye it shall, even if I have to throw large amounts of $ at Lego to get the parts to do so.. it shall! It seems my Lego collection is too eclectic to have enough to finish it right now.. but I'm working on one... (19 years ago, 21-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Heck, I don't even know how to spell LDraw :^) (...) Kevin (19 years ago, 21-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) How about like "L-P-U-B"? :) CS (19 years ago, 22-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) It's a tough one.... let me guess. LPub? I think I've heard of it. (...) Kevin (19 years ago, 22-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) You guys might be interested in this beast... (URL) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature
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(...) - The compressor (on top) uses 12 small cylinders (URL) It has 2 battery boxes - The legs lock, and are driven up & down by pneumatics, one cylinder to raise/lower and another to lock. - Up: (URL) - Down: (URL) The legs are driven (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature
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(...) There does not seem to be any guaranteed synchronization between the up down mechanism and the forward back. Slow pistons might not hit the ground before the front back transistions start. (...) That is nice and tidy. (...) Yes, I have a (...) (19 years ago, 18-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature - Greene Scorp
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In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: <snip> (...) Almost as compact as my radial.. which I've developed /developing 3 and 6 cylinder versions as well.. the 3cyl radial is 12x13x4 studs and can easily be run with any motor (even the micro), but (...) (19 years ago, 19-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature - Greene Scorp
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(...) Awesome. (...) Are the down legs coming up at the same time as the up legs are coming down? Sclagorpion will have all 8 legs down, then pick four of them up, shift, and put them back down before lifting the other four. This way the body does (...) (19 years ago, 19-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature - Greene Scorp
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(...) If you use a regular hexagon, the radial compressor would look awesome mounted on its side in the centre. ROSCO (19 years ago, 19-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature - Greene Scorp
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(...) <snip> (...) Yeah, Im looing to isolate each movement completely and have it so the body doesn't have a grav well. I'm not 100% on the orderit may be that instead of AD going to AF, I do AD, -> BU -> AF -> BR -> BD -> AU -> BF -> AR -> AD (...) (19 years ago, 19-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Schedule
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Goodness, I hate to bring up an old thread. In fact I think this one is over a year old! No matter, curiousity is burning a hole in my cranium, and that's not something you want happening! So, has this project halted and/or died, or are we just not (...) (19 years ago, 27-Jun-05, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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(...) I am the one holding up sclagorpion.... My life has finally settled down where I can have focused LEGO time again. I have been focusing on LPub and LSynth over in CAD. I have stareted to get a few more models ready for Brickfest, none of which (...) (19 years ago, 27-Jun-05, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Schedule
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"Kevin L. Clague" <kevin_clague@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:IIr3G0.1J4H@lugnet.com... (...) Slacker... :P (19 years ago, 27-Jun-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Schedule
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(...) Well Rob, I took your oft repeated advice and did some building..... I recreated Robo-hominid, and prototyped a new AT-ST. THe legs on AT-ST are my best yet. I tried to eliminate having to toss the RCX side to side, but it didn't work. Time to (...) (19 years ago, 27-Jun-05, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) In the immortal words of ++lar, "That's a good start." ;) Actually, AT-ST's are one of my personal favorites. Can't wait to see your version. too bad about the RCX shifting, though... Rob (19 years ago, 27-Jun-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Schedule
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On Mon, June 27, 2005 11:07 am, Kevin L. Clague said: (...) Currently, I have a list of about 20 things to bring to BrickFest. None of which are SSClagorpion... But I'm glad to hear that you're bringing a (some) GBC module(s). Steve (19 years ago, 27-Jun-05, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Your acheivements already speak volumes for you. Take your time. ;-D (19 years ago, 27-Jun-05, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Schedule
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(...) Thanks Devin. I appreciate that very much. Kevin (19 years ago, 27-Jun-05, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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