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I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started playing
with it, but I've yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was curious.
Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I'm already starting
to get more questions than I can answer...
If you've got it, first impressions?
--
Brian Davis
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Mine arrived yesterday, earlier than I expected.
I ordered two for... battle.>:-)
First impressions:
I need to buy fresh batteries, so I haven't fired it up yet. The packaging
seemed a little lower budget than the original RCX RIS. The consumer NXT box is
very rudimentary and disposeable (while I still keep a stack of RIS boxes).
The components, particularly the motors, look cool, though I think the rounded
edges are improper from a Lego system standpoint. I like building the components
(sensors, motors, CPU) into structures and hiding them, not just attaching them
to a skeleton. I'd rather have everything be square, and as compact as possible.
(The old RCX touch sensor was perfection.. except for being fragile in combat).
This evening I'll build the biped walker and boot up the software. :-)
K
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started playing
> with it, but I've yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was curious.
> Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I'm already starting
> to get more questions than I can answer...
>
> If you've got it, first impressions?
My VERY FIRST impression is that the RCX is faster than the NXT.
In my two previous tests with the RCX it took about three days with standard
shipping to arrive at my door (counting from when shop@home sends me shipment
notification). My test with NXT is still running and going on four days. The
data I've been able to extract from UPS indicates that the NXT could possibly
take twice as long (six days).
I'll try to write up the full comparison of results when the NXT test case
finally completes, but most likely I won't have time because I'll be playing
with my NXT instead of wasting everyone's time with stupid joke posts such as
this.
-Tim
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On Wed, June 28, 2006 9:35 am, Tim Byrne wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> > I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started playing
> > with it, but I've yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was curious.
> > Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I'm already starting
> > to get more questions than I can answer...
> >
> > If you've got it, first impressions?
>
> My VERY FIRST impression is that the RCX is faster than the NXT.
>
> In my two previous tests with the RCX it took about three days with standard
> shipping to arrive at my door (counting from when shop@home sends me shipment
> notification). My test with NXT is still running and going on four days. The
> data I've been able to extract from UPS indicates that the NXT could possibly
> take twice as long (six days).
>
> I'll try to write up the full comparison of results when the NXT test case
> finally completes, but most likely I won't have time because I'll be playing
> with my NXT instead of wasting everyone's time with stupid joke posts such as
> this.
Tim,
I think you should consider there are other factors that cause the NXT to be slower
than the RCX. You may not be able to accurately run this speed test, until the NXT
shipping bottleneck is eased. I assume that will be sometime next year. I suggest
you run the test again, then. Maybe several times.
Also, I suspect your NXT will travel over water. That's something your RCX may not
have done during your test.
Actually, I have no idea if there is a shipping bottleneck, but if the problem
continues, maybe you should re-run the calibration program. It's possible the light
sensor readings are different enough that it's having a hard time detecting your
door, because it was calibrated before crossing the water.
Steve
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> I think you should consider there are other factors that cause the NXT to be slower
> than the RCX. You may not be able to accurately run this speed test, until the NXT
> shipping bottleneck is eased. I assume that will be sometime next year. I suggest
> you run the test again, then. Maybe several times.
>
> Also, I suspect your NXT will travel over water. That's something your RCX may not
> have done during your test.
>
> Actually, I have no idea if there is a shipping bottleneck, but if the problem
> continues, maybe you should re-run the calibration program. It's possible the light
> sensor readings are different enough that it's having a hard time detecting your
> door, because it was calibrated before crossing the water.
>
> Steve
Well I also ran the same test, with both the RCX and the NXT... and the results
were so identical, it's almost shocking.
RCX - did not place order at shop&home, and strangely it never arrived.
NXT - did not place order at shop&home, and coincidentally enough, it too did
not arrive.
How weird is THAT???
Janey "The Lego fairy brought me my RCX, Red Brick"
P.S. The real reason I am responding to you Steve, is two fold, one, 'cause I
miss you, and two, 'cause I want to ask you if you have yet finished the cad of
the "simple, little blue ball pump"? If so, please link me up, if you are
willing to share.
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In lugnet.robotics, C. L. GunningCook wrote:
> RCX - did not place order at shop&home, and strangely it never arrived.
> NXT - did not place order at shop&home, and coincidentally enough, it
> too did not arrive.
>
> How weird is THAT???
Janey, you need to constrain the test better - the question here is "how
*long* did it take the RCX not to arrive?". You have to be specific and
scientific on these things...
--
Brian Davis
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, C. L. GunningCook wrote:
>
> > RCX - did not place order at shop&home, and strangely it never arrived.
> > NXT - did not place order at shop&home, and coincidentally enough, it
> > too did not arrive.
> >
> > How weird is THAT???
>
> Janey, you need to constrain the test better - the question here is "how
> *long* did it take the RCX not to arrive?". You have to be specific and
> scientific on these things...
Hmmm, now that has just confused me into thinking about it some more....
Since the NXT is just out now, and the RCX has been out for a very long time...
I guess my conclusion of them both strangely being the same was jumped to, at
much too fast of a rate.
Now in hindsight, its clear the RCX is much slower due to the cumulative days of
unwarranted and wasted anticipation of not getting a parcel in the mail. Wow,
exacting sciences are tiring!
Thanks for playing Brian, your prize will be sent along just as soon as I get my
unordered RCX or NXT in the mail.
Janey "And this is why I teach art, Red Brick"
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In lugnet.robotics, C. L. GunningCook wrote:
>
> Hmmm, now that has just confused me into thinking about it some more....
>
> Since the NXT is just out now, and the RCX has been out for a very long time...
> I guess my conclusion of them both strangely being the same was jumped to, at
> much too fast of a rate.
>
> Now in hindsight, its clear the RCX is much slower due to the cumulative days of
> unwarranted and wasted anticipation of not getting a parcel in the mail. Wow,
> exacting sciences are tiring!
>
> Thanks for playing Brian, your prize will be sent along just as soon as I get my
> unordered RCX or NXT in the mail.
>
> Janey "And this is why I teach art, Red Brick"
Don't forget the Heisenberg Uncertaintanty Principle. You know the amount of
time that passed during which the NXT or RCX didn't arrive, but you can't
simultaneously know where it didn't arrive. Perhaps it's on your porch right
now, but you'll never know.
Dennis
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In lugnet.robotics, Dennis Williamson wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, C. L. GunningCook wrote:
> > Thanks for playing Brian, your prize will be sent along just as soon as I get my
> > unordered RCX or NXT in the mail.
> >
> > Janey "And this is why I teach art, Red Brick"
>
> Don't forget the Heisenberg Uncertaintanty Principle. You know the amount of
> time that passed during which the NXT or RCX didn't arrive, but you can't
> simultaneously know where it didn't arrive.
Oh nooooo!!!! The Heisenberg Uncertaintanty Principle???? Hmmm HUP, almost
sounds like a hoax. Wink.
You robotics guys are too technical, and are just adding to my scientific
experiment dilemmas.... darn realists popping my bubbles.
I supposed the next thing you are going to tell me is that I have pay that
amount on that paper that comes monthly with the word VISA across the top!
> Perhaps it's on your porch right
> now, but you'll never know.
Runs out, checks porch... NOPE... ummm runs out, checks again... nope... lather,
rinse, repeat...
"Would that be cash or charge?"
Janey "Charge!!! Red Brick"
Fut this tangent off to fun
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In lugnet.robotics, C. L. GunningCook wrote:
> the RCX has been out for a very long time...
Exactly. You see, you may have been waiting for the RCX for many years:
without proper documentation, you have no data to extrapolate from. Furthermore
there is the statistical nature of the shipping process to consider, so there
are uncertainties in any single non-measurement, and you really need a whole lot
of non-measurements to increase your certainty.
> Wow, exacting sciences are tiring!
That's right. Best leave it to us professionals, ma'm. Just ask Dr. Science!
And remember, Dr. Science isn't hiding behind some phony degree: Dr. Science
legally changed his name, so his first name really *is* Doctor. When others ask
you to use their title, they are being stuffy and formal - but Dr. Science is
just being friendly!
> Janey "And this is why I teach art, Red Brick"
--
Brian "shamelessly cribbed from Fireside" Davis
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, C. L. GunningCook wrote:
> > the RCX has been out for a very long time...
> .... of non-measurements to increase your certainty.
Oh let me tell ya Brian... I have a whole list of non-measurements that just
aren't measuring up.
> > Wow, exacting sciences are tiring!
> .....so his first name really *is* Doctor. When others ask
> you to use their title, they are being stuffy and formal - but Dr. Science is
> just being friendly!
I have a feeling my "real" doctor did the exact same thing... there is no bloody
way she earned a real degree... she makes Barbie look like a rocket scientist.
> > Janey "And this is why I teach art, Red Brick"
> Brian "shamelessly cribbed from Fireside" Davis
Well Brian, you had me until this moment... "Fireside"??? And my three seconds
on google didn't make things any clearer... Of course, it could have been
because I was highly distracted by http://www.thefireside.net/ where they are
"Saving Rock and Roll, one night at a time!" and wow, can you imagine, if you
show up in your beach gear they will wave the fee to get in the door. Sound
like a classy place.
I set follow-ups to .fun, so the robotics group doesn't have to be victimised or
even witness our silly banter. Wink.
Janey "Time for a road trip to Denville, Red Brick"
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In lugnet.robotics, C. L. GunningCook wrote:
> I have a whole list of non-measurements that just
> aren't measuring up.
Hey now! Let's not get personal, I don't want to have to bring my wife in on
this...
> > ...so his first name really *is* Doctor. When others
> > ask you to use their title, they are being stuffy and
> > formal - but Dr. Science is just being friendly!
>
> I have a feeling my "real" doctor did the exact same
> thing... there is no bloody way she earned a real
> degree...
Speaking as someone who actually has gained an advanced degree... *NEVER*
assume such things correlate with general intelligence. In some case, they don't
even correlate with intelligence in the particular field.
> > Brian "shamelessly cribbed from Fireside" Davis
>
> Well Brian, you had me until this moment... "Fireside"???
If you ever get the chance, read through "The Official Dr. Science Big Book
of Science (Simplified)". Dr. Science was a charecter on the Fireside theater
for a while, and the book is great. Describes things like how to do genetic
engineering in your bathtub, using only household chemicals (it involves moldy
bread, hair care products, and the hair debris that collect on the drain as raw
materials).
> I set follow-ups to .fun, so the robotics group doesn't
> have to be victimised or even witness our silly banter.
> Wink.
Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I added rtlToronto so that they would have to
be subjected to it (seemed like a good idea at the time).
--
Brian "if it's *truely* useless trivia, I'll know it" Davis
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In lugnet.fun, Brian Davis wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, C. L. GunningCook wrote:
> > I have a whole list of non-measurements that just
> > aren't measuring up.
> Hey now! Let's not get personal, I don't want to have to bring my wife in on this...
Well Brian, I will give you credit for being quick, I was expecting that one
might fly over some ppls heads.
> > > ...so his first name really *is* Doctor. When others
> > > ask you to use their title, they are being stuffy and
> > > formal - but Dr. Science is just being friendly!
> >
> > I have a feeling my "real" doctor did the exact same
> > thing... there is no bloody way she earned a real
> > degree...
>
> Speaking as someone who actually has gained an advanced degree... *NEVER*
> assume such things correlate with general intelligence. In some case, they don't
> even correlate with intelligence in the particular field.
Gee, that's so reassuring.
> If you ever get the chance, read through "The Official Dr. Science Big
> Book of Science (Simplified)".
Sounds about my speed!
> Dr. Science was a charecter on the Fireside theater
> for a while, and the book is great. Describes things like how to do genetic
> engineering
Cool! (refer back to the beginning of the post re:measuring up)
> in your bathtub, using only household chemicals (it involves moldy
> bread, hair care products,....
Okay, you had me right up until THIS following point...
> and the hair debris that collect on the drain as raw
> materials).
Brian, Im not a "girly" girl, for example, a creepy crawly spider does not make
me scream and stand on a chair, I chop my own fireword, I stick my own worm on
the hook, etc...... BUT since I do not live alone, I DRAW the line at
collecting hair debris out of the drain. Ewwwwww gross!!!
> > I set follow-ups to .fun, so the robotics group doesn't
> > have to be victimised or even witness our silly banter.
> Yeah, I guess that makes sense. I added rtlToronto so that they would have to
> be subjected to it (seemed like a good idea at the time).
Oh giggle... nice.
Although you know, somehow, even though it WAS YOU - I will somehow get blamed
for this. Wink.
Janey "Blaming Brian, Red Brick"
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In lugnet.robotics, Steve Hassenplug wrote:
> On Wed, June 28, 2006 9:35 am, Tim Byrne wrote:
> Also, I suspect your NXT will travel over water. That's something your RCX may not
> have done during your test.
As long as its over the water and not through the water. (My RCX made a
frightening trip through orange juice before).
Anyhow, it may have initially been overseas, but the UPS shipment has originated
in Hartford, CT.
-Tim
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In lugnet.robotics, Tim Byrne wrote:
> My VERY FIRST impression is that the RCX is faster than the NXT.
There are two issues here. First, the NXT is slightly larger than the RCX,
and therefore requires more shipping space. Thus fewer NXTs per UPS truck, etc.
The only way around this was to make them smaller (we on the MUP/MDP pushed for
making them about the size of a 2x4 brick), but LEGO did not choose this
approach (something silly about batteries, I think).
Second, shipping time is known to be inversely proportional, in a statistical
sense, to desire. So part of the problem is that you are expecting it so much,
it's slowing the shipping. This is a well-documented physical principle ("a
watched pot never boils" etc.), and there's just no getting around physics.
> The data I've been able to extract from UPS indicates...
wow, i'm really going to have to experiment with my power supplies some more.
I had no idea you could derive shipping information from the line
fluctuations...
--
Brian Davis
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> Second, shipping time is known to be inversely proportional, in a statistical
> sense, to desire. So part of the problem is that you are expecting it so much,
> it's slowing the shipping. This is a well-documented physical principle ("a
> watched pot never boils" etc.), and there's just no getting around physics.
This is absolutely true. (*1) I went on vacation a week ago Wednesday, and was
REALLY hoping mine would get here before I left. It didn't. But sure enough, as
soon as I had left, and didn't care about whether it came this week or next, it
showed up. Sigh.
--
David Schilling
(*1) Well, okay, that's just one data point, which doesn't make for a valid
theory, but this has happened on at least one other occasion. So I think it's
okay to generalize.
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In lugnet.robotics, Tim Byrne wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> > I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started playing
> > with it, but I've yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was curious.
> > Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I'm already starting
> > to get more questions than I can answer...
> >
> > If you've got it, first impressions?
>
> My VERY FIRST impression is that the RCX is faster than the NXT.
>
> In my two previous tests with the RCX it took about three days with standard
> shipping to arrive at my door (counting from when shop@home sends me shipment
> notification). My test with NXT is still running and going on four days. The
> data I've been able to extract from UPS indicates that the NXT could possibly
> take twice as long (six days).
>
> I'll try to write up the full comparison of results when the NXT test case
> finally completes, but most likely I won't have time because I'll be playing
> with my NXT instead of wasting everyone's time with stupid joke posts such as
> this.
This was really funny!
Mine came yesterday, wasn't home so its coming today late....back to waiting for
the brown truck.
-aps
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According to Shop@Home, mine shipped out on Sunday and UPS tells me it
will be at my house on FRIDAY!!!
...I really need to get more napkins...keep drooling too much...
- Jim
> I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started
> playing
> with it, but I've yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was
> curious.
> Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I'm already
> starting
> to get more questions than I can answer...
>
> If you've got it, first impressions?
>
> --
> Brian Davis
>
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started playing
> with it, but I've yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was curious.
> Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I'm already starting
> to get more questions than I can answer...
>
> If you've got it, first impressions?
I been tinkering with mine for the past few hours. Bluetooth isn't functioning
very well with mine. Most likely operator error. I thought it had more memory
than it does. I had a hard time programming in more than four sound bites at a
time.
My next plan is to build a couple simple projects from the software instructions
and then devise a way to integrate it into my GBC efforts. One other thing I
did notice too was that the ultrasound sensor minimum range was about two
inches.
Dave H.
www.greatballcontraption.com
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In lugnet.robotics, David Hurley wrote:
> Bluetooth isn't functioning very well with mine.
What exactly seems to be the problem? Can you connect to the NXT from the
programming environment?
> I thought it had more memory than it does.
Note that if you don't want the "Try Me" and on-brick programming options,
these can all be deleted freeing up some room. From the memory pane, there's a
small check box in the upper right corner. Click it to see the "system files",
and you can delete those as well. You can even delete the system sounds - it
won't crash it, just not make the sounds anymore
> One other thing I did notice too was that the ultrasound
> sensor minimum range was about two inches.
Yep. If you're still yelling, it's hard to tell if you're hearing an echo, or
your original yelp :-).
--
Brian Davis
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, David Hurley wrote:
>
> > Bluetooth isn't functioning very well with mine.
>
> What exactly seems to be the problem? Can you connect to the NXT from the
> programming environment?
>
> > I thought it had more memory than it does.
>
> Note that if you don't want the "Try Me" and on-brick programming options,
> these can all be deleted freeing up some room. From the memory pane, there's a
> small check box in the upper right corner. Click it to see the "system files",
> and you can delete those as well. You can even delete the system sounds - it
> won't crash it, just not make the sounds anymore
>
> > One other thing I did notice too was that the ultrasound
> > sensor minimum range was about two inches.
>
> Yep. If you're still yelling, it's hard to tell if you're hearing an echo, or
> your original yelp :-).
I am still having Bluetooth connectivity problems. It may be endemic of my USB
dongle I am using; I don't know. I have had a couple successfull connections
with BT, but nothing I would consider reliable or consistent. I did mess around
with it early on but I think I have undone those boo-boos.
I even updated the firmware to v1.03,but still no change. I may have to do some
registry hack or uninstall everything. I have already reinstalled the NXT
software and drivers. I'm not sure where the problem is right now -- all I know
is that the logo blinks on and off like it is trying to connect. Maybe it's a
refresh thing with my dongle vendor software.
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In lugnet.robotics, David Hurley wrote:
> Bluetooth isn't functioning very well with mine.
A couple ideas.
It seemed to work exactly once for me on a couple laptops. I was able to
restore it by deleting all of the virtual serial ports it created (it seems
to create one for each scan, then it looses track of which one it's supposed
to be talking to). After it starts working, don't rescan, just use it.
The lego software didn't seem to play nice with the vendor-supplied USB
driver (in that it seemed to be fighting for which app would do the PIN
authentication). Since it only needs a virtual serial port, I just
"updated" the device to use the native microsoft driver (calls it something
like a 'cambridge digital radio') instead. Note you can flip back and forth
between these drivers without harm, although you will get the little
microsoft bluetooth icon as active instead of the vendor one (which will
show inactive).
Hope this help!
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Have-you-got-your-NXT-yet--tf1861916.html#a5175465
Sent from the LEGO Robotics forum at Nabble.com.
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Got 4 a few days ago and gave a couple of kits to my advanced robot kids at our
summer camps. Actually, they were quite underwhelmed. They didn't like the new
motor structure and felt instructions weren't correct and prefer the Mindstorms
old programming environment.
I attribute some of this to kids not liking new things--these are kids who have
been in our programs for awhile. Also, they were so excited about the new system
it was bound not to meet expectations.I haven't had a chance to play myself,
though no IR Towers will be a great benefit to my business (running multiple
downloads at the same time will no longer be a nightmare). I just thought I'd
post the kids' impressions so that you teachers out there will expect initial
scepticism. Once we get some curriculum using the new features, I think they
will warm up to them.
Tom Marx
Bits, Bytes & Bots Franchising, Inc.
www.bitsbytesbots.com
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Hi Brian
My impressions:
Very nice machine, I love bluetooth, the motor control accuracy and the new
sensors, the program environment looks to be very powerful even though I need
more practice...
Well here is my question, I would like to program a "wait for random time" and
"random switch" I found a solution for the first one....
here it is:
<<http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/gbrinck/NXT/random.png>>
But is there any direct function with random?
Can you help me with this?
Best regards.
Gustavo
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In lugnet.robotics, Gustavo Brinck wrote:
| |
the motor control accuracy...
|
I’m fairly pleased with that as well, although now I’ve got big dreams of how to
really use it (and then, I’ll probably be complaining about how it doesn’t have
sub-0.1° resolution :-).
We all do. NXT-G is a big jump for many of us (myself included, and I’ve not had
enough time to really learn graphical programming well yet).
| |
I would like to program a “wait for random time”...
|
So would I. As you have discovered, there’s no way to wire in a duration to a
Wait block. Here’s another solution, as well as a solution to the “Random
switch” problem:
(oooh, embedded images. I guess I *am* trainable.)
--
Brian Davis
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Thanks a lot Brian this is very helpful. Obviously I still need to buy a couple
of new NXT to try the bluetooth between them !! jejeje
P.S. More questions in the near future....
Best regards.
Gustavo
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started playing
> with it, but I've yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was curious.
> Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I'm already starting
> to get more questions than I can answer...
>
> If you've got it, first impressions?
I got mine on Tuesday. I haven't done much
with it yet (that pesky job thing), but
here's what I've thought so far...
<ramble>
The small "quick start" box is great, a lot
of newbies will be up and running easily.
Only one kind of wheels? I liked the caster
on the quickstart bot, though.
The motors are *huge*, but probably smaller than
an equivalent motor+rotation sensor combo.
If you turn the output "shaft" by hand, there's
a bit of play in the gearing; I'm not sure how
well they'll work as pure rotation sensors.
The sensors are huge, too. A pity we can't
stack them as in the RCX. For nontrivial
bots, I'd probably sense with an RCX and do
precision navigation with a NXT.
The little onboard test programs for the
sensors and motors were fun to play with.
The sound sensor picks up even if you just
move an open hand quickly toward it.
Mac support! Woo-hoo! And it doesn't suck!
On my Mac, the software installed its items
into the directory I specified ("Applications"),
which meant I ended up with the NXT app, the
"engine" dir, and other items in my Applications
folder. I moved them into a subfolder afterward,
and the NXT app ran fine.
I'm a lifelong text programmer, so this block
programming is going to take some getting used
to.
I loved the first test program: "Good job!"
The voice messages are neat; kids will love
them.
But where the voice that says "Wensleydale"?
Sounds take up too big a proportion of the NXT
memory. NXT needs more memory.
The Bluetooth connection rocks. Goodbye IR tower!
The gradual build and programming tasks seem
very well thought-out; I think I'll just
walk through them all. I was wondering where
instructions for the Rex bot and others were,
until I ran the NXT app and poked around some.
I submitted a few corrections to Philo's peeron
inventory.
All in all, I think I'm going to enjoy this.
</ramble>
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> I submitted a few corrections to Philo's peeron
> inventory.
Great! could you send me the modifications list? I think that one concerns the
wheels, I believe that the ones I got in MDP kit where not the final version...
Philo
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In lugnet.robotics, Tim Rueger wrote:
> Mac support! Woo-hoo! And it doesn't suck!
>
> On my Mac, the software installed its items
> into the directory I specified ("Applications"),
> which meant I ended up with the NXT app, the
> "engine" dir, and other items in my Applications
> folder. I moved them into a subfolder afterward,
> and the NXT app ran fine.
One very big caveat about this - at the end of the installer process on a Mac it
runs chmod -R 777 on the contents of the folder installed into. Thus, every
single thing in your Applications directory (and all subdirectories, including
bundles) now has full access permissions for everyone. Running "Repair
Permissions" in disk utility will only fix those apps with receipts in
/Library/Receipts (i.e. mostly just Apple apps).
Even worse, the uninstaller script that is created for you will delete the
entire folder that you installed into. Thus, your entire Applications folder
would be deleted if you run it! Simply moving the script to a new folder
doesn't fix things - the directory it's going to delete is hard coded in the
script!
Bottom line - if you're installing on a Mac, just accept all the defaults. You
could be very sad otherwise (as I was).
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On Jul 4, 2006, at 12:28 AM, Zachary Benz wrote:
> In lugnet.robotics, Tim Rueger wrote:
>
> > Mac support! Woo-hoo! And it doesn't suck!
> >
> > On my Mac, the software installed its items
> > into the directory I specified ("Applications"),
> > which meant I ended up with the NXT app, the
> > "engine" dir, and other items in my Applications
> > folder. I moved them into a subfolder afterward,
> > and the NXT app ran fine.
>
> One very big caveat about this - at the end of the installer process
> on a Mac it
> runs chmod -R 777 on the contents of the folder installed into. Thus,
> every
> single thing in your Applications directory (and all subdirectories,
> including
> bundles) now has full access permissions for everyone. Running "Repair
> Permissions" in disk utility will only fix those apps with receipts in
> /Library/Receipts (i.e. mostly just Apple apps).
>
> Even worse, the uninstaller script that is created for you will delete
> the
> entire folder that you installed into. Thus, your entire Applications
> folder
> would be deleted if you run it! Simply moving the script to a new
> folder
> doesn't fix things - the directory it's going to delete is hard coded
> in the
> script!
>
> Bottom line - if you're installing on a Mac, just accept all the
> defaults. You
> could be very sad otherwise (as I was).
Ye gods! Those are some huge bugs. Is there any way
to report them to Lego or NI? (Guess I spoke too soon
about good Mac support.)
I'm repairing permissons now, and I've fixed up my
uninstaller shell script. But this is a big problem that
needs to be addressed ASAP.
-Tim
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In lugnet.robotics, Tim Rueger wrote:
> Ye gods! Those are some huge bugs. Is there any way
> to report them to Lego or NI? (Guess I spoke too soon
> about good Mac support.)
I sent this to Lego Tech Support:
(http://www.lego.com/eng/service/techsupportcontactus.asp)
There is a serious bug in the Lego Mindstorms NXT software for Macintosh. At
the end of the installation process, the software runs "chmod -R 777" on the
contents of the folder into which you have decided to install. Due to a lack of
clarity in the installer about where the software will actually be installed I
chose to specify the "Applications" folder on my computer to install into (I am
not the only person to have done this, based on discussions on lugnet.com). As
a result, the permissions on ALL of the files in my Applications folder,
including all subdirectories and bundles, were changed to 777. Running "Repair
Permissions" in disk utility does not totally remedy the problem, as this only
fixes applications with receipts in /Library/Receipts (i.e. mainly Apple apps).
Even worse, the uninstaller script created by the installer hard codes the
directory that you chose to install into as the directory to delete during
uninstall. Thus if I had run the script, my entire Applications folder would
have been wiped out.
This is a serious problem that needs to be fixed. I would suggest the following
changes to the installer:
1) Make it very clear where the default install directory is located. It is in
fact located in a Lego Mindstorms NXT subdirectory of the Applications folder,
but this is completely nonobvious. All you see is that it will install into
"Lego Mindstorms NXT", with no indication of where this will be placed. This
lack of clarity is what led some of us to switch the install path to
"Applications"
2) Run chmod only on those files installed by the installer (rather than blindly
changing permissions on everything in the current directory and below). Better
yet, don't use chmod at all! Use the installer's built in capabilities to set
the permissions on the files installed correctly.
2) Make the uninstall script uninstall only those files installed by
specifically specifying them, and in a relative path manner (i.e. the files you
care about should be in the same path as the installer script, so don't hard
code a path). Definitely do not blindly delete an entire directory! You don't
know where the person decided to install, so there could be all sorts of things
in that directory.
Thanks!
> I'm repairing permissons now, and I've fixed up my
> uninstaller shell script. But this is a big problem that
> needs to be addressed ASAP.
Note that just running "Repair Permissions" in disk utility won't fix all your
permissions - it only fixes apps with receipts in /Library/Receipts (i.e. mainly
Apple's apps)
-Zach "The Lego Maniac"
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
| |
I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started playing
with it, but I’ve yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was curious.
Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I’m already
starting to get more questions than I can answer...
If you’ve got it, first impressions?
|
I was supposed to get mine today, but UPS reports it’s stuck in Illinois:
HODGKINS, IL, US 06/29/2006 10:00 A.M. ADVERSE WEATHER CONDITIONS CAUSED THIS DELAY
HARTFORD, CT, US 06/28/2006 12:26 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
HARTFORD, CT, US 06/27/2006 9:15 P.M. ORIGIN SCAN
US 06/27/2006 8:49 A.M. BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED
Tracking results provided by UPS: 06/30/2006 11:32 A.M. Eastern Time (USA)
:(
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In lugnet.robotics, Jordan Bradford wrote:
| |
I was supposed to get mine today, but UPS reports
it’s stuck in Illinois:
HODGKINS, IL, US 06/29/2006 10:00 A.M. ADVERSE WEATHER
|
Excellent. I wonder how fast I can drive to Hodkins, IL... :-).
--
Brian Davis
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I just now happened to check my tracking number, since I’m still awake.
HODGKINS, IL, US 07/03/2006 1:42 A.M. ARRIVAL SCAN
HODGKINS, IL, US 06/29/2006 10:00 A.M. ADVERSE WEATHER CONDITIONS CAUSED THIS DELAY
HARTFORD, CT, US 06/28/2006 12:26 A.M. DEPARTURE SCAN
HARTFORD, CT, US 06/27/2006 9:15 P.M. ORIGIN SCAN
US 06/27/2006 8:49 A.M. BILLING INFORMATION RECEIVED
So, will I get it today (Monday) or will it be delayed past my four day weekend?
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started playing
> with it, but I've yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was curious.
> Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I'm already starting
> to get more questions than I can answer...
>
> If you've got it, first impressions?
Got my NXT in the mail last night and have spent several hours working with it.
I am really impressed. I am already itching for temperature, more touch, and
some other sensors.
Todd
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started playing
> with it, but I've yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was curious.
> Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I'm already starting
> to get more questions than I can answer...
>
> If you've got it, first impressions?
Thursday, when I saw this thread, I hadn't gotten a shipping email, so I looked
on shop.lego.com for my orders. I didn't see it their either, so I figured it
got lost in the shuffle. Besides, I really don't have time right now, so that's
OK.
Well, got home in the afternoon, and there was a big box at my door! I'll find
time.
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|
I ordered mine from Target online. They had a deal for 10% everthing, so with
tax and shipping it still worked out to less than $250. The web site says
delivery for end of July, but I received mine on June 30.
So far have built only the demo Tribot and have been fooling with the
programming to see what can be done. Some things take experimentation as
everything is not fully documented. I need a place to ask questions/discuss
issues. Is this the right forum?
Current questions/observations are:
1) wrote a little program to make the bot twirl in place (one wheel forward
and one back at same time). Is there any real difference in starting one
moter after each other and starting them both in parallel? I can't see one.
2) I changed the prog to start when I clap and keep twriling until I clap
again and then change directions every time I clap. I noticed that the sound
sensor "bounced" like a push switch. I had to wait first for quiet and then
wait for noise before switching.
3) I noticed that motor power is not the same as motor speed. I set power to
1% and the bot would not move (too heavy) but if I picked it up the whells
would turn slow. So then tried to move slow at 100% power by looping many
times of 1 degree movement at 100% power but this was not a smooth motion -
it just jerked along forward. I wonder how to accomplish this.
4) I can't seem to get a parallel processes within a loop. The NXTG software
doesn't let me. Although I can make user block with parallel processes and
then put in a loop.
5) I can already see that I'm going to get tired of the graphical interfact
and will want to use a more normal programming system.
That's it for now.
--
View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Have-you-got-your-NXT-yet--tf1861916.html#a5146101
Sent from the LEGO Robotics forum at Nabble.com.
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> 3) I noticed that motor power is not the same as motor speed. I set power to
> 1% and the bot would not move (too heavy) but if I picked it up the whells
> would turn slow. So then tried to move slow at 100% power by looping many
> times of 1 degree movement at 100% power but this was not a smooth motion -
> it just jerked along forward. I wonder how to accomplish this.
If you check "Control: Power Power", the motor speed will be regulated. At very
low power settings (<10) it may be somewhat unstable. This checbox is available
with "Motor" block, not "Move" block.
> 4) I can't seem to get a parallel processes within a loop. The NXTG software
> doesn't let me. Although I can make user block with parallel processes and
> then put in a loop.
Unfortunately, you're right...
Philo
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In lugnet.robotics, Philippe Hurbain wrote:
| |
| |
I can’t seem to get a parallel processes within a loop. The
NXTG software doesn’t let me.
|
Unfortunately, you’re right...
|
I’m not so sure. Try the following technique on your copy, in case something
is broken in my version of the editor. To make a parallel sequence, you just
drop an orphan block (one not attached to an existing sequence) and then wire a
sequence beam to it by holding down shift while clicking on an existing sequence
beam to draw out a new one. The catch? Those elastic loops shrink-fit around
the inner code, leaving no “blank” sheet inside the loop to drop the orphan
block. What you need is a “crowbar” (I think Kevin introduced me to the term) to
open up the loop:
Notice the crowbar (I think) needs to be attached to the primary sequence in the
loop. Do all the wiring etc with the crowbar in place (and you could expand the
crowbar still further by dropping things into it), and then when the program is
finished pull out (delete) the crowbar. The loop will shrink to fit when the
crowbar is removed. It may (for several parallel sequences) hide some of the
code. But it will still work. In some cases, you can simple open the datahub of
a Draw block to get enough room to drop a simple second sequence.
Note that this example doesn’t actually do what I thought it would do. I would
have thought that the loop does not wait for the completion of the lower
sequence, but it seems it does. To put it another way, the loop only loops after
*both* sequences within it finish.
--
Brian Davis
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| |
Notice the crowbar (I think) needs to be attached to the primary sequence in
the loop. Do all the wiring etc with the crowbar in place (and you could
expand the crowbar still further by dropping things into it), and then when
the program is finished pull out (delete) the crowbar. The loop will shrink
to fit when the crowbar is removed. It may (for several parallel sequences)
hide some of the code. But it will still work. In some cases, you can simple
open the datahub of a Draw block to get enough room to drop a simple second
sequence.
|
Hi Brian,
Indeed, it does work.
But you better not have to add some blocks in front of of a split beam (inside
or outside a loop)!
Philo
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In lugnet.robotics, Philippe Hurbain wrote:
| |
But you better not have to add some blocks in front of
a split beam (inside or outside a loop)!
|
With that particular example, it seems I can drop a Sound block in front of
the loop as a whole, or even in front of the original Sound block within the
loop just prior to the sequence beam split. But in general, you’re correct - I’m
doing something here that the editor isn’t really designed to handle nicely, and
a lot of odd and weird behaviors can result if you’re not careful. This is one
of those cases where it’s best to figure out exactly how to structure and draw
the program *before* beginning. And even then, I often delete just about all the
wires to manually re-wire to “force” the programs to look clean to my eye.
--
Brian Davis
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In lugnet.robotics, Brian Davis wrote:
> I know that some folks already have gotten the NXT and have started playing
> with it, but I've yet to see anybody announcing such here, so I was curious.
> Also: should I direct new NXT users into the LUGNET forums? I'm already starting
> to get more questions than I can answer...
>
> If you've got it, first impressions?
A little late, but I got mine today and here are my first impressions:
1) Paid 2 day shipping on Friday and it got here today (was hoping to have it to
play with on July 4th, but...)
2) I decided to try to be patient and read the instructions! (and follow them)
to see what many new users would see (am very glad I did with the studless
construction and all)
3) The "try me" and "quick start" are EXCELLENT ideas to get people started and
make them thoroughly impressed with their new toy (especially the ultrasonic and
sound sensor try me programs)
4) My two sons (13 and 10 - users of the RCX and Robolab for several years) were
fairly turned off by the size of it (in the picture it looks like an mp3 player
but the NXT brick is actually bigger than the RCX brick). They said, "I thought
computers were getting smaller." The sensors are bigger and the motors are
almost unwieldy. The connectors are not that flexible (meaning it is difficult
to get the long ones out of the way so the NXT doesn't trip over itself).
5) The quick start robot was fairly easy to build (even I could do it without my
sons' help!) The instructions were pretty good. It concerns me though about the
studless building, when others were concerned, I blew it off. Well, after seeing
what it takes to get the NXT to use motors and wheels, it kind of disappoints me
(it will take me a while to get used to it as I liked to be able (with the RCX)
to build a line follower fairly quickly (or even something to move forward and
backward)). I view this as a big disadvantage. Although the synchronization of
the motors should eliminate countless problems encountered with the RCX.
6) I have just started with the LEGO MINDSTORMS NXT language and do not see it
as that big of an improvement over RIS. (I have only done the quick start trybot
program so far.) I am very glad that robolab 2.9 works with both NXT and the
RCX. This will be a big aid to me as I will be dealing with people with both
products but they only have to learn one user interface.
All in all I am fairly happy so far
Disclaimer: note these are my initial impressions and are subject to change as I
use it more!
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