Subject:
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Re: What's actually the task of the moderators on BrickShelf?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Thu, 19 Aug 2004 22:11:29 GMT
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Viewed:
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1152 times
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Hello!
> > Yes. Those people think Nazi symbols and uniforms are cool because of the
> > background, not because of their sheer look.
> I disagree. I recognize the amazing talent of Nazi designers of the time.
> Their engineers especially, but also their graphic designers. Nazi
> propaganda posters are often amazing works from an artistic standpoint. And
> Hitler was a real innovator when he made it a priority to create a "Nazi
> Brand".
Yes, the Nazis were quite good at this. And you may be intelligent enough to
differentiate between the aesthetic shape of the Nazi brand and the not at all
excusable ideology. But I highly doubt everybody is able to differ or even wants
to. What about those collectors who collect memorabilia like dishes just because
they have been used by Hitler himself? That's the pure fascination with
something gloomy and cruelly. That's nothing to do with the aesthetics.
> The tools of prevention are not censorship (for this is the tool of
> oppressors everywhere). Instead, we should use free speech to engage Nazi
> sympathizers and let them know that we find their views offensive. If
> enough people truly find the persons works offensive, they will get a bad
> reputation and probably go elsewhere.
I agree. I don't want the censors to censor the gallery. But I question the
sense of the currently practised censorship on BrickShelf.
Oh, and I used free speech, I posted my concerns to Lugnet, didn't I? ;)
> Have you communicated with the person who built the Lego models in question
> and explained your concerns yourself? The alternative is to hide behind a
> moderator who simply opresses - and doesn't engage the offender or otherwise
> question their views. I prefer the community approach to maintaining order
> in a community - not central authority.
No. I didn't know how to contact him.
> First, I don't think it has been proven that the person in question was
> making a pro-Nazi statement by building red and gray airplanes and giving
> them German names.
But he gave the folder a quite clear description. Clear for those being able to
read German, that is. He brought his innocent red and grey LEGO creations into a
questionable context. Lucky who doesn't see connotations between the words
"fascistic"/ "German Reich" with the so called "Third Reich" from the 1930ies
and 40ies! However, this connotation is clear, and I claim who brings
"fascistic" and "German Reich" together knows what he is doing. Even more when
he brings up a "new" Reich. That lessens the innocene in my eyes.
> I agree that an individuals rights end when they impinge on another
> individual's rights. I don't however believe that you have a *right* to not
> be offended.
That's true. Some people are even offended by the tax return :-)
> You do have the right to speak out about things that offend
> you, and to perhaps expose Nazi sympathizers for what they are. But you
> need to be careful about crying wolf.
Yeah... But I was in an argumentative mood....
Maybe this messerschmidtf10 guy is just a kid who finds this Nazi nimbus cool.
So he needs to be taught that it is not cool. maybe he doesn't know a s... about
the real fascistic German Reich. So he needs to be taught that people didn't
have a great time living in this Reich, even if the war machines looked cool.
And being bombed by a cool looking bomber doesn't help much...
> And for the record, I think everyone has the right to protect themselves
> (for example, from Nazis and other oppressors). I don't think you have a
> *right* to hate people, nor do Nazis. One reason you do not have the right
> to hate people is that it "affects the human rights of another individual"
> as you said.
Hating people doesn't affect anybody, not even the people being the purpose of
my hate. It's just a feeling I have, and who would forbid feelings? [The Church
forbids feelings. But that's a completely different story.]
On the other hand hate leads to the Dark Side™ so I'll try to oppress this
feeling in the future. However, I still dislike people who don't accept
everybody's right to live like Nazis and racists don't.
> I think you said that you think the breast censorship was silly, and I have
> to agree. Only the perverted could find a womans breast offensive.
> If the female breast poisons a childs mind then why do so many mothers
> expose their young children to them multiple times daily?
Good point.
> People are *taught* to be offended. There is no such thing as a bad word
> without public consensus.
That's actually what I think, too. Being offended is mostly the outcome of
socialisation and education.
I for example was taught about the Third Reich that it was evil. And they told
us good arguments that proved this assumption. So this is why I can't stand
people who are ignorant enough to find it "cool."
> All I've said is that I'm not sure that the person was trying to offend
> people, and that I don't see a problem with emulating Nazi color schemes on
> airplanes or naming them in German. It seems that you are reading a lot
> into this.
Like I said above the connotations are evident. If the person was actually
trying to offend people I don't know. Maybe it's his attitude to be provocative
- like I certainly was with some of my statements, too.
> I can understand that since you can't vote. On the other hand, we might
> invade your country next - unless it already has a McDonalds! :P
Harhar! Well, we have been standing between Scylla and Charybdis: Should we stay
away from the Iraq and await the GIs attacking Berlin instead, or would we help
bombing Bagdad and await the terrorists attacking Berlin? It's like chosing
between plague and cholera....
Oh, and I prefer Burger King.
Bye
Jojo
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