Subject:
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Re: Sheikh Yassin
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 26 Mar 2004 07:03:50 GMT
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Viewed:
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579 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Richard Parsons wrote:
(snip)
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Mmmmm. I have no doubt that there were radical elements in all these groups
who had just those goals.
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So what? Doesn’t mean anything.
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There were those in the American administration who
fervently argued for an unavoidable need to duke it out with the Russians at
the earliest opportunity on numerous occasions in the past. Thankfully, there
were cooler heads who recognised in the Russians a common humanity.
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Say again? We “fought” them on every front imaginable- Korea, Viet Nam, the
Cold War. Nobody recognized any “common humanity” in the USSR, only the evils
of Communism. Further, we didn’t alter our Constitution to reflect our desire
to obliterate the Soviets. Only after the collapse of Communism have we
embraced the humanity of (now) the Russians. But notice-- it took a radical
change on their part, as will it take a radical change on the part of Hamas
(basically dismantling it).
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Let’s cut to the chase, and let me ask you straight on
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Just give me a second to assume a similarly belligerent posture.
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Look, I just want to clarify positions as quickly as possible.
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Ok, ready...
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Would Hamas still be terrorizing Israel if Israel returned to
‘48 borders and ceased any/all military interventions?
Would Hamas still be terrorizing Israel if each and every
Palestinian in a country called Palestine were a millionaire?
If you answered “no” to either of these questions, you don’t get it.
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chuckle
And you do.
Its so temptingly easy and self-gratifying to hate and hold someone else
responsible when you’re in pain or can’t be bothered to think too hard. Its a
kind of mental masturbation, only with real (not illusory) negative
consequences.
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They were 2 simple “yes” or “no” questions. Not too much mental masturbation
necessary.
I beg you to read a translation of the Hamas Covenant. It is so painful to see
you so blatantly disregard facts that are as plain as day. The fact is that
nothing Israel does short of disappearing will be enough to appease them. Why
is that so difficult for you to accept? But don’t take my word for it. Take
theirs!
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Messages in that for both you and Hamas on different levels.
Its equally easy and unhelpful to respond to hatred in kind.
And before Bruce starts tearing his hair out agin thinking I’m preaching
universal love or harping on the need for hope, my point is only that
historically, attractive and enjoyable as some find hate, the hateful
inevitably lose.
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Only because somebody stood up and fought the hateful! They don’t just go
away on their own! Pull your head out of the sand!
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These issues need thinking and building, not killing and destroying.
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But what if one side categorically rejects that assertion? What does one do
then? Call for more love and peace? It is meaningless blather.
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In the Israeli case here, there’s some talk that the strategy is to reduce the
settlement activity, and in order to sell that to the settlers, the Israeli
administration needs to come to it from a position of strength, and that means
killing some more Hamas leadership and demonstrating that the iron fist has
delivered a new platform. An admirable goal with and ugly to do list.
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You speak as if this is some kind of game to the Israelis.
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I guess
if the Israelis can move to the cessation of the settlement activity, and
maybe even a winding back, it needs to come soon. That activity holds out
something for the Palestinians, and goes to reduce their enthusiasm for
violence. But if it doesn’t come soon (before the Palestinians can properly
respond, and they will, its only a matter of time) then we have only plumbed
new depths of terrorism (for both sides).
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Again, you don’t grasp the situation. Do not equate the Palestinians with the
Hamas. Even if the Palestinians want peace, there will be none because of
Hamas, because Israel will still exist! Hamas will kill Palestinians and
Israelis alike! That’s how much they hate Jews! There will never be peace as
long as terrorist organizations like Hamas and al-Qaida still exist. Never.
JOHN
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: Sheikh Yassin
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| (...) What do you mean "if"? (...) So why did Israel help establish Hamas? What about the right-wing Israeli terrorist groups? (...) There will never be peace as long as the killing persists on both sides. Your one sided view of this situation is (...) (21 years ago, 26-Mar-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Sheikh Yassin
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| (...) I wasn't actually saying that at all, although I'd happily agree that you could a sense of moral equivalence. But I wasn't commenting on your odd morality, or even the American revived doctrine of pre-emptive self-defense. I was simply (...) (21 years ago, 25-Mar-04, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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