Subject:
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Re: Newsbits: CA Recall and IMF-Argentina Negotiations
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.off-topic.debate
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Date:
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Fri, 15 Aug 2003 14:14:48 GMT
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Viewed:
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456 times
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Bruce Schlickbernd wrote:
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So I expect to never, ever hear the phrase “liberal media” out of you, right,
since it sided with Bush? :-)
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No matter how hard I try, I can’t swallow conspiracy theories--including
“liberal media.” It’s too ingrained in human nature to blab for any conspiracy
to long endure!
I believe that the media is largely composed of liberals (just check editorial
endorsements around election time and compare the number of liberal candidates
being endorsed to the number of conservative candidates being endorsed). Thus,
much news is provided with a liberal viewpoint. (As a counter-example, Fox
News, which has more conservative journalists, provides more conservative
viewpoints.) Do the “liberal media” members sit around wondering how to provide
the liberal view? Nah. That’s just how it is: not a deliberate thing, just
what happens.
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“We all know that election laws don’t matter when Democrats are on the losing
side...” Okay, back that up. Give some examples.
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Okay, from the 2000 election:
-Deadlines required by law aren’t deadlines (FL Supreme Court, “extended polling
hours” in heavily Democratic areas of St. Louis).
-Equal protection provided by the 14th Amendment isn’t (“every vote must count”
except the military (i.e., conservative) ones, and recounts only took
place in heavily Democratic areas with Democratic election commissions).
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As to Gore, he accepted the final ruling, so that would not constitute an
example.
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True, but you said:
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Judicial fiat is how we have Bush as president
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and I was providing an alternate viewpoint, not providing an example to bolster
my original argument.
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Mediation is usually to avoid an actual court appearance - there is nothing
in and of itself illegal about it. Perhaps if you laid out the entire
scenario a little more thoroughly, I could better understand your position.
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But mediation isn’t part of the judicial check and balance for legislation!
Judicial review is very explicitly detailed at federal and state levels, and it
does not include mediation.
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Actually, I’d say that was the best line. It has been the age old standby,
kill a white person, get executed, kill a black, oh, maybe a slap on the
wrist. But I rather imagine that it is as I said, payback for the Willie
Horton thing, which your site does not spend one word on deploring. One was
a straight racist appeal, the other was a complaint about letting racism
continue (remember, Republicans like to pretend they are the “law and order”
party). So, no, they are not directly comparable, but if they are, why
aren’t you expending even more effort on the ad that is the root cause?
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Hey, you argued:
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the right-wing Republicans are doing whatever it takes to actually achieve
theirs
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I countered with that ad as an example that both sides are willing to do
whatever it takes to gain power. It’s beyond the purview of this discussion
(though if you want to start one I’ll be happy to join!) to discuss the ad
content...
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Yes, they tried to bribe anyone, yes, when the cold light of day struck, the
cockroaches pretended like they didn’t know them. So what? The bottom line
is that they were protected and sheparded by Bush and his buddies every step
of the way except the last (i.e. the main cupability for Enron getting out of
hand lies squarely on Bush). Just say, no they weren’t and we can go from
there, or admit that they were instead of these sound bite defenses. And
yes, it did do them a lot of good (in the short run, and some still now):
many of those weasels running Enron made millions at other’s expenses.
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I’m afraid I lost you with “the main cupability for Enron getting out of hand
lies squarely on Bush;” can you provide examples of special treatment that they
received over and above what other companies did? It’s just a bad corporation
run amock. Bush didn’t cook their books, lie to investors, and ruin the lives
of employees.
IMO, there’s no defense possible for the blatant fraud that Enron did. The
Enron execs who wilfully cheated millions of investors and employees should not
only be in prison (and not a country club one either, but kinda like the HBO
show Oz), but their lifestyle should be ruined so that even if they get out they
have to be just like the rest of us working stiffs. It was sickening when Ken
Lay’s wife was weeping about having to sell one of their houses.
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Is it? I must admit I haven’t had a regular newpaper the last few weeks, but
I haven’t really seen evidence of this. Anyone with some reports (and
please, regular news or business sites, not conservative or liberal
propaganda sites)?
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DJIA, consumer confidence, and consumer spending are all improving. Actually,
anyone *know* any sites that aren’t propagandizing in some form or fashion?
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Hmmmm, I don’t know where we seem to be disagreeing that much: you site
nothing to blame Clinton, so it would seem to be on Bush’s head, and if it is
recovering, then it must have been down. All that we seem to differ on is
that it is going back up, and time will either prove your right or not,
regardless of what it appears like at the moment.
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You talked about:
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the bad economy in general (same culprits ed: Bush/Cheney)
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I believe that the president and government has little effect on the economy
other than at the level of the individual consumer--and more precisely, how much
money that consumer has to spend, whether it’s through tax rate or interest rate
changes. The government can accelerate or retard trends, IMO, but not much
more.
(If the government had that amount control over the economy, we’d be communist
instead of capitalist.)
I provided examples to support my argument, and hopefully did a decent job of
demonstrating that neither Bush nor Clinton is particularly to blame for the
economy. (Hop-Frog said they were mere figureheads, but the downside of being a
figurehead is that you also get to be the fall guy when things go bad.)
We will indeed see only over time. I hope I’m right not for the sake of being
right, but because lots of us sure could use a stronger economy about now!
One more thing: It’s Friday! :)
Best regards,
Carl
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