 | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Scott Costello
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| | | (...) Tell you what froggy, if you want GWB thrown out, why not take a page from the California playbook. Obviously you feel very strongly that Bush has not been a good president, and your feelings run very deep. Why not start a campaign to recall (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | (...) I know of no mechanism for the voters to recall the president of the United States. Impeachment seems to be the only legal recourse. Yes, no? (...) Considering the long history of the United States, are you sure you wish to typify Gray Davis (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —David Koudys
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| | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Costello wrote: <snip> , that does not (...) But after all that wonderful astuteness, Scott, by what right did your president have to invade a foreign country? His reasons as he listed in every speech and in every (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | | | (...) Wait a minute. People can see that the US was missing some stuff for over 40 years and only recently found it but are complaining that we haven't found anything burried in the Iraqi desert after only a few months!? Color me confused. -Mike (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —David Koudys
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| | | | | | | (...) It was an example. I'm sure that if and when every single rock is turned over in Iraq that there will probably be some canisters of something that's been missing since around '91. That said, since this stuff is missing, it couldn't have been (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | | | | | (...) You assume that because the U.S. doesn't know where stuff in Iraq is that the Iraqi leadership did not know where the stuff is. Simply not finding anything is not proof that there is/was nothing to find, it only means we haven't found it. We (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | (...) I'm not clear why this is unrelated -- it seems very related to me, and also an obvious example of the U.S.' very poor foreign policy as a whole. The other issue is shelf-life: it is my understanding that most of this stuff has lost its (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | | | | | (...) All of them. I hope in my lifetime all the politicians are gone and we reinstate the use of representatives. (...) Yeah but when over half the population believes the story and now "feels safe" you might as well bide your time. (...) Ok the (...) (21 years ago, 12-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) But that's not the issue. The issue is that Bush, Rumsfeld, Powell, and Rice (among other admin officials and toadies) asserted that Saddam was an active and immediate threat with an active chemical/biological weapons program and an active (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | (...) Clearly all false... But I'm not sure he actually CLAIMED those things (what he did claim was bad enough in the lying department, though...), Dave! (...) I'm still in the "maybe" camp on that one, Dave! (...) As usual when discussing (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Bruce Schlickbernd
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| | | | | | | (...) Or become a scofflaw and ignore it. Or rationalize rewriting the law for yourself (sometimes known as pushing the limit to see if it really is a limit): all posted speed limits are really five MPH faster than listed, or heck, this road is a (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) You make a good distinction. In the interest of fairness and disclosure, I offer some documentation of my assertion: Dubya's speech on 10/7/03 included the following statements: re: active biological/chemical weapons program: (...) and a (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | (...) I failed to include my cite: (URL) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) As to whether Harry Browne is running(2) again, let us hope not. Yes, some Libertarians lie/cheat/steal... but we don't claim to be perfect, just forgiven... er wait, wrong tagline, try that again.... but we are actively working to make the (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) First you must demonstrate that it's obvious. Then you must demonstrate that it's biased. Then you must demonstrate that it's a source. (also riffing on that previous joke (for those joining us late)) (...) I confess that I'll miss him, (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | It'd be great to blame Shrub for a lot of this, and I do, but let's be even more specific in what is being claimed. Leaving quotes and vaguely worded claims to the side, I am blame Shrub for a rush to judgment on a matter of considerable importance. (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | More on blame obfuscation: CIA Got Uranium Reference Cut in Oct. Why Bush Cited It In Jan. Is Unclear (URL) CIA Director George J. Tenet successfully intervened with White House officials to have a reference to Iraq seeking uranium from Niger (...) (21 years ago, 13-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | Another bit... MEMO TO COLIN POWELL (URL) MEMO TO COLIN POWELL: You'd think that as distinguished an old soldier as Colin Powell would know that when you find yourself in a hole, you stop digging. But that's the opposite of what the secretary of (...) (21 years ago, 13-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Here's a tidy compilation of most of my point: (URL) Dave! (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | (...) with those of its master. The 45 minute statement is a Blair thing: (URL) as noted earlier today. And as Kooties has noted elsewhere, the poodle and its master are meeting later in the week to get their mutual story straightened out and (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | (...) I'm not really digging too many politicians lately, but let's at least keep in mind that the man is contending with one of the worst CA economies in a long time. He, like Shrub and the U.S. Congress, has done almost zero to better the (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | (...) Mea culpa, I meant to say Guardian Unlimited. But I hold to the same logic. I read a diverse, international range of online sources. As long as it sounds like something more or less objective, I will read it and weigh it's significance against (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | (...) Uh... The only thing the government can to do "help" the economy is to cut taxes. Everything else only makes it worse or at best has no impact. And please don't give me that "tax cuts for the rich" crap. The "rich" by the definition the (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) Here's a good counterpoint from (...) This quote was taken from (URL) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | Well from all 3 Economics classes I have taken through high school and college all three teachers/professers have stated that a President and Congress's effect on the economy shows up about 10 years after the fact. Sort of a catch 22, the government (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) We have to be careful about that kind of assertion, though, because it's after-the-fact and is succeptible to tremendous spin. Additionally (though not conclusively) I've heard the point put forth most vehemently by conservative pundits, who (...) (21 years ago, 11-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | (...) Oh absolutely. (...) Well I have heard the same thing from liberals favoring Democratic admistrations that is why I tend to accept it moreso than not. (...) No. (...) Well duh. (...) Unfortunatly I really never figured that part out. Maybe (...) (21 years ago, 12-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | | I know, I know bad form replying to myself. (...) The federal budget is not the same thing as the national economy. -Mike Petrucelli (21 years ago, 12-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) But have you heard Democratic administrations using the apparent ten-year delay as evidence of the strength of their own policies (ie, those that come to fruition during Republican administrations) or to commend Republicans for enacting (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | (...) I haven't heard anyone using the ten-year-trail other than economics teachers period. In that context it makes sense, outside that context is anyones guess. (...) I haven't acctually heard anyone saying that. (...) That is because most people (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —David Koudys
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| | | | | In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Mike Petrucelli wrote: <snip> (...) K, I don't follow American issues *that* closely, but didn't Bush sr. talk about "VooDoo Economics", and wasn't the basis of "VooDoo economics" tax cuts for the rich, such that the (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | (...) Really? Pretty much every discussion about the economy that I hear gives Reagan all the credit for the mid/late 90's boom, while all the blame for the Dubya-era recession goes to Clinton. I would go so far as to say that, among conservative (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | | (...) Well that's the first thing I have heard on the subject that makes any sense at all. (...) Personally I think the real reason the Democrats are always against tax cuts is so they can spend the money on their social engineering agenda rather (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) Republicans tend to spend the Federal budget into hideous deficits while cutting useful[1] social programs, so that any subsequent tax that Democrates apply to restore such programs can be villified as "tax-and-spend" liberals. [1] I know, I (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | | | (...) Yeah so they are both full of crap. (...) I agree, that is basicly what my indended meaning was. (...) Nothing, however for the 1 person like her there are 100 that are just leaching off the system. Half my aunts and uncles come to mind. I am (...) (21 years ago, 15-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | (...) I dispute that statistic as non-representative of reality. Do you have a citation? Alternatively, if you're just making a rhetorical specultion, that's fine, but you need to disclaim it as such. And again, let's distinguish Federal assistance (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | I wasn't overly impressed with the nature of the rhetoric or information at those links either. And while I can't speak for the specifics of what Mr. P was referring to, something similar to it can be found here: We Have Met the Wealthy, and They (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) *snip* (...) Most sharply-biased (in either direction) media sources hope that the audience never makes the connection that you point out, and all too often thats exactly what happens. It's interesting that a common conservative tactic is to (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Larry Pieniazek
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| | | | | | | | (...) How badly do you want out of your situation? McDonalds is hiring. Seriously. Your wife could presumably (if college educated or reasonably hard working, (and she must have been smart to select such as yourself Dave!)) become a manager in no (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | | | | | | (...) No, they're not. In most cases menial work like that is available part-time only so that the employer can avoid granting an employee much by way of the benefits that usually go to full-time workers only. Plus, how do you realistically explain (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | | | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Dave Schuler
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| | | | | | | | (...) That's actually not true, or at any rate it's only true insofar as you can become a manager in no time for $7.50 an hour or less, along with guaranteed straight-rate overtime, minimal benefits, and minimal job security. (...) Given the (...) (21 years ago, 17-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | | | Re: How many things need to stack up before we throw this jerk out? —Mike Petrucelli
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| | | | | | (...) Mostly that statement was based from a women I used to work with who grew up in North Philadelphia and basicly told me as much. She litterally told me that they should just drop a bomb on the whole area because most of them (her relatives (...) (21 years ago, 16-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | | | | | The Economy, Stupid! (was Re: How many things etc) —Richard Marchetti
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| | | | (...) You're so cynical, Dave! Too bad it is not more contagious, it might keep more politicians on their toes. In theory, I'd like to see taxes so low that much of what we now have as part of local, state, and federal governments would be (...) (21 years ago, 14-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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