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(...) You may be missing the subtle insinuation here. To many liberals JFK was the be all of what a president should be. Many would love for Clinton to be the second coming of Kennedy and do all they can to resurrect his legacy. As Clinton will (...) (21 years ago, 12-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) What planet are you from? When I am lucky I commit these "transgressions" on a nightly basis. -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 12-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Say again? If you cheat on your wife, no matter how often, then you are a disgusting pig. JOHN (21 years ago, 12-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Here's where you have to consider what things mean and weigh your estimate of people's intelligence and character. Do you think Hilary Clinton is an idiot that didn't know her husband had a long string of affairs with other women? Or is it (...) (21 years ago, 12-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) What if, in a person's chosen ideology, the fact that someone has relations with others are not their spouse is not only acceptible but welcomed, would they then be the disgusting pig that you referred to? What if the same person didn't choose (...) (21 years ago, 12-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You bring up exceptions, which are not to what I was referring. Speaking about the Clintons, I am sure that they got married in a Christian church and exchanged wedding vows (if I am wrong in this assumption, then I retract my condemnation). (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) From the beginning? Do you suppose she would have married him in the first place knowing that he would cheat on her in the future? I doubt it. (...) That may be so, but we are discussing in the context of marriage, and a Christian marriage at (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Sorry to burst your bubble, John; but I know gay men that attend a Catholic church regularly. Again, the world is not limited to the flavors you would impose upon it. Indeed, the world doesn't care about the restrictions you would place upon it. It (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Sorry to burst yours, but they aren't married (by the Catholic church). (...) What's this "world" stuff? We are talking about marriage in the Christian context. I don't know what you are talking about. (...) It seems to me that you don't know (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) You may be right. It amounts to something like this: I don't judge others by my own possibly limited notion of what is right and wrong for me as being right and wrong for them; unless they are dragging me down with them, then my hand is forced (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) And why is that? Why should the "church" tell two people, who want to live in the institution of marriage, that they can't just because those two folks are of the same sex? Where in the teachings of Jesus does it say, "Marriage is good for (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Indeed. Does the bible not say that females who commit adultery should be stoned? Scott A (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Absolutely! Let's get out the rocks! Don't worry about hte men who commit the 'adultry' with them, for men shouldn't be held responsible for their transgressions. And women should be seen and not heard! And don't touch the skin of a pig, or (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) They can do whatever they want. It's just that the Church doesn't sanction it. (...) Read Matthew 19:3-12 (...) Shoot the messenger, uh? If it is too intolerable for him to be a Catholic and abide by its teachings, he should be honest and (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) And how does the church come to making such decisions? What process does the church use to come to the conclusion that this over here can be sanctioned, but that over there cannot? (...) So the Catholic church is obeying the "letter" of the (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Through what they believe to be the relevation of the Scriptures to them by the Holy Spirit. (...) Now you are the one who is quick to judge. There isn't any Church I'm aware that says that divorce is "fine". They may recognize it as a (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Easter isn't scriptual, nor, btw, is Christmas. The Lord's supper is, though. And yet all three of these are pretty much the cornerstone of today's church. Divine revelation by the Holy Spirit? Is there a book in the Bible that says that (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, David Koudys writes: (snip) (...) Easter, not scriptural? I do remember being in Religion classes back in school and be told that it was *the* most important Christian celebration! (...) I dunno that much about the old (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Here is what I do not understand, the church is not "forcing" them to do anything, this guy was problably born into the Catholic church, but since young adulthood he has had the choice to remain or not. What I truely don't understand is why he (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Pagans and Xtians (was Re: Sex Scandal etc)
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(...) In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Pedro Silva writes: (...) Easter and Xmas are both originally pagan holidays. You might as well be worhshipping some ancient fire god like some of the peoples mentioned in the OT (at one point Abraham, prior to (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Heh, well, that's a little extreme :) I'd probably argue that while not "ordained by God", Christmas and Easter are still Christian celebrations; not worshipping any differently than allowed to by the Bible-- unless there's something in there (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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<snip> (...) So basically what you are saying here is that some portions of the Bible are more important that other portions? Why? I was brought up to believe that the bible as a whole is important and that everything inside the covers are related. (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) This explains a lot. (...) I am not seeing the intolerance directed at the religious members of our community. Maybe if you were Jewish or Muslim. That thing about Mormon persecution so many years ago is starting to grow mold on it... I'd just (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) This statement is misleading. Most Christians associate Jesus' resurrection with the word "Easter". Obviously, the celebration of the resurrection of Jesus was never a pagan holiday, although the celebration of the feast to Astre was. They are (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Yes. Without getting into it too deeply, I'd say that the Gospels are the most important part of the Bible, for they contain God's final revelation and interpretation of the Bible (talking OT here). (...) Certainly forgiveness, but (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I know they are pre-christian; Easter I had always thought as having been conveniently adopted by Christianity from Judahism. Which in turn may have had it adopted from another pagan belief - quite honestly, I find that of little consequence, (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) My bible says this for Luke 14.26: "If people come to me and are not ready to abandon their fathers, mothers, wives, children, brothers, and sisters, as well as their own lives, they cannot be my disciples." This makes more sense in the (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The intolerance I was refering to is that of those who take issue with religions or religionists for their beliefs, basically telling someone that they must unconditionally accept your chosen lifestyle. One of my best friends has recently (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I'm pretty sure it has a lot do with the prohibition concerning idolatry via the decorating of trees in Jeremiah: ---...--- 10:1 Hear ye the word which the LORD speaketh unto you, O house of Israel: 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way (...) (21 years ago, 13-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) The point I was trying to make with John, and seems to be pushed to the wayside, is that mayhaps the church, and doctroines thereof, need to be revisited--whether you personally accomodate homosexuals in your life is nice and all, but (...) (21 years ago, 14-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Column. The last row tends to consist of really, really, unstable elements. Sorry for being anal about row-column, just trying to hijack this away from religion (Zzzz...zzzsnore). -->Bruzzz...zzz... (21 years ago, 14-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Thanks for the clarification. Sorry for keeping ya up, Bruce! Yes, religious debate can sometimes get tiresome, but I've wanted to keep it as interesting as possible. Honest I have! Dave K -who puts people to sleep wherever he goes (21 years ago, 14-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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Annoyingly, I was unable to post to LUGNET for a few weeks and wasn't able to contribute in my usual, brilliant fashion. I apologize for the late response to Scott's posting, but this was just about my first opportunity to do so. (...) It should be (...) (21 years ago, 20-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Wow Dave, this was so old I almost forgot I wrote about this. Alright as it appears that there were some huge misunderstandings in my post let me try to clarify things. First and foremost, I do have core beliefs as to what is right and wrong, (...) (21 years ago, 21-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I think that you probably have an okay approach to the issue -- just as long as your ideas about right and wrong are qualified by the concept of right and wrong "for you." Need I mention the many stupid and pointless sodomy laws across the (...) (21 years ago, 21-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I think that I'd favor a combination of your two definitions, but I must admit that my own definition is hardly ironclad. I'd offer something like this: Tolerance is, at the very least, the acceptance of others without pre-emptively judging (...) (21 years ago, 21-May-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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