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(...) You do realize that much of that stuff is predicated on the very claims that the White House made that are now being contested, right? I would think it's a debate error to claim as fact, or even as support, the very things being questioned. To (...) (21 years ago, 2-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal wrote: Oops. Sorry (I hate it when folks don't use hyperlinks:-p) (2 URLs) (21 years ago, 2-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) Bad example. How did Thomas Jefferson deal with stateless terrorists? He increased the power of centralized government, raised a navy, and went to war. The Barbary Pirates (ummmm specifically the Corsairs of Tripoli) were seizing ships and (...) (21 years ago, 2-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) (URL) AQ, in particular, is supra-national. Cells may exist in as many as 60 (...) Certainly some. And convince and assist the other countries to purge them by themselves. (...) Really? When were you summarily investigated and databased? (...) (...) (21 years ago, 2-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) There is zero proof Iraq was harboring anyone plotting moves against the U.S. AQ, in particular, is supra-national. Cells may exist in as many as 60 countries including the U.S. Are we going to go after them all, John? (...) Freedom from being (...) (21 years ago, 2-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Newsbits: (was Re: The War etc)
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(...) ??? Or it may not have. (...) ??? Or they may not have that. (...) ??? Or it might not have. (...) How exactly were they looking to draw their conclusions? This article is basically opinion. (...) Thank you for the warning, Doctor Spin. JOHN (21 years ago, 2-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) Well, there you have it. There's nothing like an open mind, and yours is nothing like it! But to answer anyway: In both Iraq and Afganistan, terrorists were allowed safe haven to train and plot their attacks. By eliminating the governments who (...) (21 years ago, 2-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Newsbits: (was Re: The War etc)
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Conflict 'may have driven Muslims into arms of al-Qa'ida' (URL) The war to topple Saddam Hussein may have damaged the campaign against international terrorism by driving Muslims into the arms of al-Qa'ida, an all-party committee of MPs said (...) (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) One reference that would seem to fit your Libertarian philosophy is Michael G. Coney's "The Jaws That Bite, The Claws that Catch." But I don't think that's the one you're referring to. Dave! (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Nope, I was thinking of another one. It's probably been done several times. Frank (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Brown Girl in the Ring? Anyway, William Burroughs wrote an essay on this very idea in the late 70s or early 80s -- it was carried in Heavy Metal magazine. It loosely relates to his novel as screenplay, "Blade Runner." -- Hop-Frog (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) This is an incredibly important consideration that the pro-Death Penalty and lock-em-up-and-throw...e-key-away people tend to totally ignore. There are a few things that do justify indefinite incarceration, but very few in my mind, for just (...) (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) Please explain with great specificity how the twin invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq have made us safer from terrorism. Of course, keep in my mind that there is much intelligence claiming the exact opposite of your probably false assertion (...) (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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Mandatory life sentences create very dangerous, panicked offenders. If you were DUI and killed someone, and you KNEW that you were guaranteed a life sentence, what exactly do you lose in trying to run, possibly killing more people (think a DUI (...) (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) What is your definition of "imperfect safety"? As long as other people are killed by terrorists and I can still have my freedom, I can live with imperfect safety. Well what if you were in one of those towers? Tell me how you can live through (...) (21 years ago, 1-Aug-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) Uh, the stomach to defend the U.S. Constitution, John?! I'm sorry, but I think at least some of us are willing to do that and also have the stomach for it. Freedom is not the same as perfect safety. I can live with imperfect safety if I can (...) (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) John, as an outsider, this is not convincing. Half the people you are worried about today were your allies a few years ago! What has changed to ensure the torturers and murderers the USA is nurturing today won't kick you in the ass in 10 years (...) (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) Bush & Co think so. I think that they are correct. We shall see... (...) That's it! Isn't this the entire crux of the issue? How does a free and open society protect itself while respecting civil rights? The answer and dirty little secret is (...) (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) It is my understanding that the money for AQ is known to come from SA, it is not conjecture at this point (if it ever was). The question is: does the SA govt. condone or even know about this activity? Obviously, attacking SA is out of the (...) (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) Well, we could open an exception for cars carrying large amounts of ABS to happy consumers' homes... ;-) Pedro (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) Why not just go after the Saudis *first*? And why not do it economically instead of via unwarranted war? Arrange our affairs to break our dependence on foreign oil and voila.(1) (Oil is too valuable to burn in cars, it needs to be saved to (...) (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Crux of the Matter?
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur wrote: "President" Bush's You guys crack me up! JOHN (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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(...) Here is one for the conspiracy theorists: what if we know full well that SA is behind al-Qaeda but attacking her is out of the question (seeing as how she is supposed to be our ally, but we attacked Iraq instead as a sort of veiled threat to (...) (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Crux of the Matter?
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(...) Sorry: I was referring to "President" Bush's (URL) drunk driving conviction>. (...) Sorry John. Scott A (...) (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Crux of the Matter?
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(...) Not sure to what you are referring or the reason behind the winky, but I think you have confused Mike's opinions with mine. JOHN (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Crux of the Matter?
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(...) I’ve decided that John’s (URL) that “Drunk Drivers” should be executed has some merit after all. ;) Scott A (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The War That Never Ends
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"The threat is still real because neither invading Afghanistan nor Iraq had much to do with Al-Qaeda, which is itself a supra-national entity largely financed from ***** ******." I'm sorry, but that line had to be censored... the truth is (...) (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | The War That Never Ends
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No one is so foolish as to prefer war to peace, in which, instead of sons burying their fathers, fathers bury their sons. - Croesus, King of Lydia in Herodotus' The Persian Wars Al-Qaeda threat 'still real' (2 URLs) The president also said the (...) (21 years ago, 31-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) I'm not sure I follow you. Would people prefer to use these pharmaceutical drugs, or would they opt for the more potent and insidious drugs like crack and ecstasy? (...) lol I hope you are being facetious, but I'd bet you're not! :-) (...) It (...) (21 years ago, 30-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Crux of the Matter?
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(...) What would be better in my mind would be if companies that seek foreign labor pay decent (but not US union) wages. That way, foreigners are able to benefit from such partnerships, creating a win-win situation. Even if foreigners are paid half (...) (21 years ago, 30-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: The Crux of the Matter?
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(...) Why not tax corporations so that the payroll cost-per-employee is the same whether they employ US or foreign citizens? That is, if the standard US wage is $10.00/hr, and the standard foreign wage is $.50/hr, let's tax the corporation the (...) (21 years ago, 30-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | The Crux of the Matter?
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Double standard on globalization (URL) American industry wants to be free to shift labor around the globe. And it fiercely lobbies against any restrictions, such as transnational labor standards. But when it comes to property, business lobbies just (...) (21 years ago, 30-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) So instead of legalizing something relatively benign like pharmaceutical grade cocaine or heroin, you have de facto readily available garbage like crack. Crack is cheap, powerfully addictive, and TRULY ruins people's lives quite quickly. What (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) The problem with drug usage is not the usage "per se", it's what addicts do once they waste all their money. Tipically, the pattern for drug usage is: you have a job and do drugs, then you lose your job (and income) due to the addiction, then (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Can a parallel be drawn with alcohol in the "dry" twenties? Why? (or why not) Pedro (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) I think most people don't do drugs because they don't want to risk their lives/health/saftey, not because it is too expensive. Personally I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs. The bottom line is that using drugs does not fall under the category (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) Um, okay, that's "hard":-) But yes, it is only that kind of "no tolerance" policy that is going to change public behavior. That said, I think it would definitely lead to an increase in the prison population (addressing Richard's qualm), at (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Tony Martin case: You can't {make up} better criticism of Liberals!
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(...) First I should state that I belive we should make driving while intoxicated a capital offense. (meaning that it can be punishable by execution once the court system is overhauled, until them life imprisonment) Second why do you assume that (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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(...) ...too true. The biggest killer in Scotland is actually the deep-fat-fryer (aka "chip-pan"). When my countrymen boil vegetables... it is usually in lard! Basically, if one can fit a food item in, that's the way to cook it. This includes: (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate, FTX)
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| | Re: Sticking my gun where it doesn't belong...
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(...) It's about telling a story - it's a short-cut to tell the audience that tension is ratcheting up and that events are now balanced upon a fine hair. Using a gun in single-action mode (manually pulling back the trigger) is usually entirely (...) (21 years ago, 29-Jul-03, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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