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(...) So far I think we're all on the same page. (...) How has this been made apparent? This is not apparent to me. What is apparent to me is that they want territories that Israel stole in the 60s back and they aren't willing to compromise on it. (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) I was referring to PLO *terrorists*. (...) Never said that. What would Israel know of peace?? She has never been allowed to exist in peace! Yes, Israel *would like* to exist in peace, but for now, Israel would just like to exist, period. (...) (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) John, Your whole thesis appears to be: 1) Arabs/Palestinians are uncivilised troublemakers. 2) Israel is a peace loving nation. 3) There is an international anti-Israeli media conspiracy which distorts reality. However, to date, you have (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Wasted breath alert
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IMHO, subject says it all. Most of the participants know this already, so a "wasted breath alert" is in itself wasted breath, I guess. I don't see a lot of movement happening. Remember who you're dealing with, everyone. All parties already know how (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) What Sharon did *ALMOST 50 YEARS AGO* was wrong-- Israel itself is not proud of some of those early day policies. But that was a long, long, time ago. Times have changed, and so has Israel's policies. Citing events that occured almost a half (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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(...) Arabs have been the dominant culture in “Palestine” for well over 1000 years (700ad?). However, as I understand it, that last Jewish kingdom in the M.E. ended in ~400-500BC - But I'm open to correction on that(!). Many cultures and (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) I agree that you can't always hold the people responsible to what the leaders do, but wouldn't you agree that sometimes when it's clear that the leader is doing what the people want, the people _should_ be held responsible? (...) nod... but (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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I found that article pretty sketchy on facts I could agree readily agree with. The author of that article pointedly equates criticism of Israel with "Jew hatred" -- which to my mind is NOT the same thing at all. Hatred of a people for no reason is (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) But yet, you refuse to condemn Israeli terrorism! Or even acknowledge the role of your own country in supporting terrorism. You claim all Palestinian’s are "PLO terrorists". You are unable to acknowledge the most simple of truths about Israel. (...) (23 years ago, 24-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) Ha, nice try. But you are too clever by half. There *is* no country "Palestine". Why not? But thank you for the invitation, but I care not to sympathize with homicidal terrorists, no matter what their plight. Terrorism is *wrong* and *evil*, (...) (23 years ago, 23-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) Who knows? I don't doubt that these views exist. I don't doubt that the there are those who have the same views on just about any race or religion. I don't doubt that the rather colourful metaphors used as part of some cultures make things (...) (23 years ago, 23-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) Good point! We should look with more sympathy on the actions of the Palestinians given their plight. Chris (23 years ago, 23-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) lol sorry, guess I didn't parse that too well through space:-) (...) lol again, if it were that easy to shut down Scott, it would be employed *more* often>;-) There's no 'wiggle room', room for (...) I would certainly say that to a reasonable (...) (23 years ago, 23-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) Here's another question to help reduce my ignorance: what's the source of the claims that I've heard again and again and again and again in the various media that the PLO in particular and vocal extremist groups in the Arab world in general (...) (23 years ago, 23-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) I was kinda going for a tongue-in-cheek thing there. It was a 'Hatred exists because of intolerance, you idiot!' thing--saying 'you idiot' expressing hatred and intolerance. You go on to say that what you should have sid in the first place, (...) (23 years ago, 23-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) D A N G E R ! Big mistake Dave. You are being objective. This is nothing but evidence of: a) Your bias. b) Your support for "PLO terrorists". c) The power of the international anti-Israeli media conspiracy. In the future, try to view this as a (...) (23 years ago, 23-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) *sigh* (...) 2 Examples of Israel's terrorism: 1. How would you describe what Ariel Sharon done to the village of Qibya in 1953? 2. How about their planned attacks on cinemas inside Egypt? Scott A (23 years ago, 23-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | avoiding the conclusion (was Re: jumping to conclusions)
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John, I started by saying you were jumping to conclusions, now I feel you are avoiding the conclusion. I had hoped that your formal study of the “Israeli-Arab Dilemma” would mean that I would be provided with some meaningful insight into the current (...) (23 years ago, 23-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) So what's a Palestinian to do? Speak out against the PLO? Peacemakers aren't very welcome in the Arab world--just ask Sadat's widow. (...) None really, except to note that the US media is getting *so* biased that it is surprising even itself. (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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(...) No reason? I think you definitely had a reason. But if it is to imply that I hate Scott, you're wrong. I disagree with him, and I called him an idiot because what he proposed was idiocy-- that's all. (...) Which "heinous war crimes" is Israel (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) You said: 1. “Sorry, there isn't one. “ 2. “The PLO represent the Palestinians.” 3. “Whatever the PLO does, the Palestinians support them.” 4. “Anyone who supports the actions of terrorists is just as culpable as the terrorists themselves.” (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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(...) Indeed, as an objective news source, this is right up there with the IDF site! ;-) Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, John Neal writes: <snip> (...) <snip> (...) <snip> (...) I just thought that those two lines should be viewed together. No reason... Just because the atrocity is sanctioned by the government, it doesn't make the atrocity (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Peace in the Mid-East?
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(...) that at least some people do get it. :) Dan (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Peace in the Mid-East?
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Here is an Article by Mona Charen. I think anyone who cares about the subject should read it. As of posting the link refers to her April 5th article. Her April 12th article is worth reading as well. (URL) Main Creators Syndicate Page is here (URL) (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) I think I clarified that. I said that if they *support* terrorists, they are as *culpable* as terrorists. Since the PLO represents them, they are in the unfortunate position of supporting terrorism. They are being woefully misled. Or (...) (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) I said: "My views on human rights and international law, together with my understanding of recent middle-east history, leads me to sympathize with the Palestinian people, not with "PLO terrorists". I hope you understand the distinction between (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Is global communication bringing everyone together?
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(...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Is global communication bringing everyone together?
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An interesting article by George PAcker in NYT - free reg reqd. "In some ways, global satellite TV and Internet access have actually made the world a less understanding, less tolerant place. What the media provide is superficial familiarity -- (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) Having this discussion with you is futile-- I *never* said that I thought all Palestinians are terrorists. From your "sighs" in previous posts, it seems to me that you think that you have such a superior command of facts. Have you ever been to (...) (23 years ago, 22-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) I shall let Dan answer that. ;) Scott A (...) (23 years ago, 21-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) I did not expect an answer from you on this. The reality is that anyone who did celebrate the loss of life on September-11 probably would view those killed as being supporters of the “Zionist oppressor/aggressor/whatever”. That is, in the same (...) (23 years ago, 21-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) And is a jest any less legitimate than any other form of art? ROSCO (23 years ago, 19-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Canceled Lego Theme...?
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(...) Nicely said! The second someone's actions negatively impact on someone else, is where the line is drawn. If a person gets his kicks by reading dirty magazines, he has the freedom to do so. If he leaves the magazine laying around for kids to (...) (23 years ago, 19-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Canceled Lego Theme...?
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(...) Sorry-- couldn't resist:-) (...) It is an interesting scenario. I am not for the government restricting the rights of adults so much as I am concerned about protecting minors from disgusting things adults like to do. Although she *is* free to (...) (23 years ago, 19-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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(...) *sigh* (...) In 1953, a unit under command of Ariel Sharon, attacked the village of Qibya in Jordan 60+ were murdered. The day after the attack a UN observer said that the IDF had forced civilians to stay in their homes whilst they were (...) (23 years ago, 19-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: jumping to conclusions
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In lugnet.off-topic.debate, Scott Arthur writes: These beliefs (...) Sorry, there isn't one. The PLO represent the Palestinians. Whatever the PLO does, the Palestinians support them. Anyone who supports the actions of terrorists is just as culpable (...) (23 years ago, 19-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) Um, arguably if you were to place the AR in the context of the overall NA colonial struggle, as just one part of the entire multiparty "war" (other parts included the French and Indian war, and the War of 1812, as well as undeclared naval wars (...) (23 years ago, 19-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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"Scott A" <eh105jb@mx1.pair.com> wrote in message news:Gut7s7.IoD@lugnet.com... (...) Except when they meet at Wembley :-) Though I see there is talk of them re-introducing the Home Championship Smart move - they need someone to finish of the (...) (23 years ago, 19-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| | Re: Conflict in the Middle East
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(...) Yeah, it was especially great the way he exhorted us to rage, rage against the dying of the light. Dave! (23 years ago, 19-Apr-02, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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