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This is an interesting discussion. I think it points out both the many
different technologies and interfaces people are using to access the
newsgroups, and the different viewing habits we have developed based on the
interfaces we use and our individual needs/wants for posting, viewing,
discussing, and retreiving the data.
A few comments on Todd's usability problems should illustrate some of these
differences:
> 1. In my newsreader I noticed that there were 4 new posts to .cad.dat...
> I happened to read the text of Duane Hess's Riot Control Vehicle posting
> first, because the subject line sounded the most interesting of the
> four. But my immediate first thought was, "Before I go view this, what
> have other people said about this?" (I like to read other people's
> comments first before viewing a model, otherwise I often end up having
> to view it twice because someone else saw something cool in it that I'd
> overlooked.) But then I realized, "Hey, wait, this is .cad.dat -- and
> there aren't any discussions here -- so if I want to see what other
> people have written first, I have to exit this group, go into .cad, read
> that stuff, and then come back here."
In my newsreader, lugnet.cad in one quick click and about 1/2 second wait away
from lugnet.cad.dat. In the web interface, it would take a couple clicks and
a 2-3 seconds wait to get between groups. Furthermore, I always check .cad
first, then .cad.dev then maybe check .cad.dat if I have time to look at
models.
> So I figured, "forget that...too
> much work. I'll just go to that darn web interface and go through stuff
> from there." So I got there, and viewed the model (which I liked) and
> then I still wondered what other people had said about it. Well, at
> least if I scroll down to the bottom of the page there, I can see if
> other people have posted any followups. Nope, no followups yet. Oh
> well.
>
> 2. Next I clicked up Duane's Debris Removal Truck --
>
> http://www.lugnet.com/news/display.cgi?lugnet.cad.dat:265
>
> No problems there -- and I posted a short followup -- but then I clicked
> on Duane's Barr.dat post --
>
> http://www.lugnet.com/news/display.cgi?lugnet.cad.dat:266
>
> which, oddly, wasn't posted as a follow-up to #265 as it probably
> should have been. Why wasn't it? I'm not sure, but I'll bet it has
> something to do with the fact that the followups on #265 are set to
> .cad (rather than defaulting to .cad.dat), thereby decreasing the
> probability of someone posting a followup into the .cad.dat group.
> So now #266 and #265 are separate threads. :-( I doubt they'd've
> been on separate threads with an integrated data/discussion group.
Posting a sub-model separately is kinda iritating whether it's done as a
follow-up or a separate post. A better strategy here would be to inline the
model and repost the whole thing.
> 3. Next I clicked up Imre Papp's Minifig Tool Pickaxe --
>
> http://www.lugnet.com/news/display.cgi?lugnet.cad.dat:263
>
> I viewed it in LDLITE and noticed something odd (a missing vertical
> patch), so my first thought was, "OK, I'd better point this out."
> But then I thought, "Wait, first I'd better check to see if someone
> else has already pointed it out." Not having seen the answer
> immediately on the screen, and having remembered the frustration of
> checking out the Riot Control Vehicle via NNTP first, I quickly
> forgot that I could just scroll down to the bottom of this page and
> see if someone has pointed it out yet. I was halfway on my way to
> going over to .cad.dev (and I had to -think- which group to look in;
> bad) before I realized, "Duh, wait, the answer *was* there, it just
> wasn't not there."
Well, jeez, Todd, you designed this thing, we expect you to know its features--
especially such a cool feature as this :-)
> Another real bummer with the way things currently are is posts like this
> (not pointing any fingers! -- just giving examples):
>
> http://www.lugnet.com/news/display.cgi?lugnet.cad.dev:452
> http://www.lugnet.com/news/display.cgi?lugnet.cad:66
> http://www.lugnet.com/news/display.cgi?lugnet.cad:1170
>
> These messages are of course all variations on the theme of "Hey I just
> posted a foofoo to lugnet.cad.dat -- check it out and let me know what you
> think." Now, nobody's done anything wrong by posting these, but -- Ugh --
> how unfortunate it is that this sort of thing becomes necessary when
> discussions are separated from data. :-/ And with more groups, it'll only
> get worse.
But if the .dat file post serves as the announcement, then it would often need
to be cross-posted to several groups, i.e. .cad and .starwars, or .robotics
and .build and .cad. But the other groups can't (at least now) view the .dat
files directly with LDLite.
You probably can't find a perfect solution to fit everyone's mix of
technologies, interfaces, and habits. The more options you can provide the
better, though. The idea of a "virtual" newsgroup which would consist only of
the .dat files of a newsgroup would probably go a long way toward satisfying
those of us who end up searching through old posts to find a part, model,
etc. If possible, such a virtual newsgroup should be accessable through both
nntp and the web.
If the past is a good indication of the future, I'm sure you'll come up with
an inovative solution and blow us all away!
-John Van
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: lugnet.cad hierarhcy
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| (...) One of my talents as a UI-guy is to be able to forget things like that and go into situations fresh. (Maybe I did too much LDS at Berkeley. ;-) (...) True, even with discussions in the .dat groups, there will still be the occasional need, to (...) (25 years ago, 30-Apr-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: lugnet.cad hierarhcy
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| (...) How strongly do you really feel about that? It seems to me that all one has to do to find the source is to climb to the top of the thread tree, which can be done by looking for the absence of "Re:" in the Subject line, or by clicking the (...) (25 years ago, 29-Apr-99, to lugnet.cad.dev, lugnet.admin.general)
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