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| (...) them... (...) part legs. I been building a Rock Raider mech, and a scaled down version of those legs would work great. If you don't mind, I'd like to use a pair of legs like that. Keep up the good work! Rob (1) I've been on a vacation. (24 years ago, 17-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| Thanks Rob, regarding using my legs in your designs, HELL NO!!! This is not a model I am willing to be copied!!! (...) three- (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) Mladen, please reconsider. One of the best ways for our models to improve is to promote cross-pollenation of ideas. As long as credit to you is duely given, can you see any possible disadvantage to letting others use your ideas? Cheers, - (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| I would reconsider if he was the only person to ask me, but I get 10 e-mails each day from people asking me how they love my designs and want to use them in their own. Most of the messages I reply to with a yes, but this time no, this is my model, (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| i'd have to agree with mladen on this one- the whole point of lego is creativity. i'd take the same approach i do with TLC models- build a copy first to familiarize yourself with any new pieces and their useage, then proceed to invent your own uses. (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) Actually that's not true. Anyone can copy your designs if they want to. You don't have to like it, but that's how it is. (...) That's too bad. If someone made something using a design of my own, I'd feel very flattered. Sometimes I borrow (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) I think that Mladen would have difficulty stopping them, but he doesn't have to post DATs or endorse their actions. I've used some of his VTOL models, and I think he'd be right to share what he has, but he doesn't have to. We do have copyright (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha)
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| <CLAPPING> Beautiful, nicely worded James! I let James use my models, because he has the decency to first ask me before he does anything, if he could actually USE my model. Then, when he put it on his wonderfully organized and cool website, he (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha)
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| - Insert 4 letter word - YOU WHO ---- do u think you are Mark! You copy so many ideas from everyone here and barely give credit (Storm Owl sure looks and sounds like my own OWL MOC)! AND EVER HEARD OF SOMETHING CALLED COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT!!! (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) Somehow I doubt that copyright laws apply in this instance. This isn't a case of someone stealing an idea and making money from it. This is a case of someone wanting to use someone else's design for their own enjoyment. I agree that you should (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha)
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| You know, at the rate I am turning off newsgroups lately I'm not going to have much to read pretty soon. Lets calm down folks, Please. Followups to lugnet.admin.general Eric Kingsley (...) e-mails (...) them (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground, lugnet.admin.general)
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| (...) Yes, I do copy ideas. I try to give credit when I do. See my recent .space post regarding the Storm Owl (named for a Mega Man X4 character, not anything of yours.) where I give Colin full credit for his engine design. I also designed the (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) This _really_ doesn't apply. Copyright covers published works -- you certainly have copyright over the image you posted to brickshelf, but that's all. A patent might apply to the design, but you don't have one of those. Also, even for things (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| jeez kiddies- isn't it about time we all started playing nicey nicey? i mean i may be a newbie or whatever, but copyrights and patents? what the hell are we talking about here? mark and mladen both of you do awesome work- who cares who "steals" from (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| Woah! Take it easy Mladen. Designing models with LEGO and sharing them is lot like the entertainment industry; there is no theft it is just influence or people making tributes to a source of inspiration. This is the way you should look at it, (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) Mladen, I agree with you to a point on this one, but I have to say not fully. I understand your frustration at having someone copy a design which I'm assuming to quite a bit of time to develope, judging by its complexity. I have no problem (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) that's (...) First of all, I am not a lawyer. All of the following is based on a general understanding of the law from a layman's point of view. That being said, I'll continue As DAT's are plain text, to my understanding they can be (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha)
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| (...) The only way to guarantee this is to not publish your pictures. Ron Sedlmeyer (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| well said patrick. it seems strange to me that someone would get THAT upset about a "crime" that hasn't evn been committed, especilly when you consider that the whole mech (oops, excuse me i mean MECHA) thing is "borrowed" from or influenced by (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) This certainly is an appropriate display of courtesy, especially given the sensitive and occasionally nebulous nature of online copyright issues. What is the prevailing wisdom regarding reverse-engineering of online models? Dave! (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| (...) I tell ya, that's all I want to do right now, especially after this bombshell I dropped. Mladen, you're entitled to wanting to keep your designs yours, but your behavior and language is way out of line. Shouting and swearing at folks for (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground, lugnet.admin.general)
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| (...) So you've filled out the appropriate paper work, sent in your money to the copyright offices and waited 6 or so months for the copyright aproval of your 'product'? If not, I have some extra copyright forms you could use... ~Nathan (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) Copying it and claiming credit, sure, that's not nice. But just copying the idea is _fine_. (...) This may be copyright infringement. Taking those dat files and building a model from them wouldn't be. (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| Random thoughts. 1. Mladen, you're a lego genius. I went to your web page and was knocked out. 2. Geniuses are allowed a bit of slack in my book to be temperamental. :^) 3. Still, I think that you would be better served by relaxing and toning down (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground, lugnet.admin.general)
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| So am I supposed to reply to everything that is posted on LUGNET. Fine, I'll humour you: Wow, that's the coolest models ever made! I really can't wait 'til you build some more! Hope you're happy! (...) that (...) peoples' (...) respond (...) impact (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| mladen- oh calm down! what's the matter big boy? someone not love you enough? asking for your honest input as a builder i respect only to be answered with mocking disdain is COMPLETELY uncalled for! if i were kingsley i'd ban you and your (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) I think it's at the very least considered polite to give credit. I'm not sure there's prevailing wisdom, per se. My black hopper, currently available at my brickbay site ( <grin> ), has been reverse engineered in the past. I'm not particularly (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| (...) <snip> (...) Me and mark were in our little lego chat room the other night when he showed me his new VTOL called the Kingfisher. I saw it and told him cool and that that was the name of a very cool VTOl by Ben Vaughn. Mark said, "really, i'll (...) (24 years ago, 19-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) You're thinking trademark. Mladen has (at least in the US) a copyright over anything he has created. One can *register* a copyright, which makes it much easier to defend in a court of law, but one does not need to register to actually hold a (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) Just say on your web site "I was inspired by So-and-so's cool design for the blah blah part of this castle." (...) Well, and of course point (D), which is that even if they say no, it's not like they have a legal (or perhaps even moral) claim (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground, lugnet.admin.general)
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| (...) Sure, the jpg images are copyrighted. I don't think that the design for a model expressed therein necessarily is. (I'm not a lawyer, but if I were, I'm sure I could dredge up some precedent / example here. There was a special exception added (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) To further clarify: this is what design patents are for. (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| On Wed, 19 Jul 2000 13:41:48 -0600, Mladen Pejic wrote (in message <FxyMpo.D1L@lugnet.com>): (...) Oh, Mladen...I'm so disappointed. Next, I suppose you'll be holding your breath until everyone does what you want? My respect for your designs remains (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) Bad form. Repetition of this kind can lead to suspension from a group. It's happened before. (...) Technically, it's copyright infringement to use a piece in the same way that Lego uses a piece in an official set. I'm so glad they don't really (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) Exactly right. Further the copyright is by default! That is, you have to disclaim it to immediately put something in the public domain. And I believe in the US, at least, an explicit assertion is not required, although it helps protect your (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) All day yesterday I sat there and debated whether or not I should weigh in on this ... and come back today, and find I missed the flurry altogether. Ah well, better late than never ... [WARNING: this is long - I have a tendency to ramble ;)] (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| (...) Right. As of March 1989, published works do not need to have a copyright notice in order to gain protection. However, it's still good to put it there, because apparently "I didn't know that was copyrighted" has been a successful legal defense (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground, lugnet.publish)
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| (...) <snip> (...) <snip> I'm sorry it all happened as well. I really didn't expect for my small disagreeing remark to be met with swearing, hostility, and accusations. Even if my comment was technically incorrect, I would expect anyone to maintain (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| (...) Um, check on that? IANAL* but I have heard that the c-in-a-circle is not a good substitute for writing out thw word 'copyright'. I could be misremembering, however - it may have been using (c) (like, in a plan text file) that was not (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.publish)
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| (...) Indeed. Thanks for the reminder. (...) No, I wouldn't make that claim at all. It has happened already, in fact. I may not like it but so what? I said as much in a post to off-topic.debate (this slugfest is wriggling around to a lot of (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.publish, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| (...) You should have *both*: Copyright © 2000 Matthew Miller. All Rights Reserved. The last phrase doesn't do anything in the US, but apparently is good to have for some other countries. (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.publish)
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| (...) Hey look; it's me and Larry in complete agreement. :) The DMCA apparently has a new form of intellectual property for the design of boat hulls. (From what I've read, yes, it is that limited and special purpose. If anyone has any more info on (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| (...) It wasn't that at all. Someone asked nicely if he could use the design posted online, and the request was denied in a rude way. Proper credit would certainly have been given. (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| (...) They do not look alike at all. Are you telling us we can't build any transport aircraft or use 'OWL' is a name because you used it first? Just because you used click-hinge in legs does not means other people can't use it. (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) Ya, at the time I hadn't read it all the way through (sadly, now I have). I'll stick with the assertion I made that there were allegations of copying of models without proper credit being given. But I'd agree with you that was not the case in (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| I'm fascinated by all of this, because I know almost nothing about the subject! In lugnet.publish, Larry Pieniazek writes of his quite cool design: (...) Isn't there some law allowing a consumer to copy a CD or tape for his/her own use as long as (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Copyrights and IP (was Re: Mecha Legs
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| (...) subject! (...) discount (...) I'm not sure either... But I don't think that's quite correct. if I buy a CD, I don't think I have the right to have it playing in both my car and my house at the same time. I could be wrong though. I'm pretty (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| (...) he (...) legs (...) be (...) these (...) Sorry about that Mladen, I should have asked you over E-Mail, and it was rude. I was asking to use the concept not the legs themselves, and I don't mind you saying no. Rob (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha)
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| (...) I don't know how you would go about enforcing a wish like that, or even proving that your designs are original in the first place. I assume in your case that they are -- and I have no reason to doubt that you came up with them on your own -- (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) Rob- I wouldn't sweat too much apologizing to him. _he_ was the one who was rude, you had the decency to ask permission. He was the one who showed himself a fool. We've seen that from the numerous responses in the past day. Though messaging by (...) (24 years ago, 20-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha)
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| Don't apologize, I'm the jerk. And it's okay you can use the legs, but I don't think you would want after the way I responded to your request. Sorry, I apologize Rob, I was way too rude and mean. Sorry again. (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha)
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| I have to say that I am glad that Larry has chosen to allow one to purchase the rights to make unlimited copies for personal use. This has allowed me to take the extra step to recognize Larry's contributions by actually buying a copy of the (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| (...) I've got a bit of experience on this general topic, as I also get many, many emails every week from people asking me if they can use my Pallas Spaceworks designs. I am also rather sensitive about this topic, because I am an Industrial (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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| I don't know why, but an image instantly appeared on my mind. It's about someone who can't walk easily since whose own legs inserted his own back.. Selçuk (...) (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.underground)
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| (...) I dunno. I respect Rob's apology greatly. (...) Matthew 5:22 :^D -- jthompson@esker.com "Float on a river, forever and ever, Emily" (24 years ago, 21-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha)
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| (...) Well said. But I'd like to voice a different opinion on the whole issue. This whole thread originated when Mladen offered a sneak peak at his current mecha project, and Rob asked Mladen if he could use "a scaled down version of those legs" in (...) (24 years ago, 23-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
| | | | | Re: Mecha Legs
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| (...) Depending on what one is trying to accomplish, I don't see a problem with copying others designs. I have seen several nice setups which have extensively used stock LEGO sets. I plan on copying Larry Pieniazek's hopper (of course in that (...) (24 years ago, 24-Jul-00, to lugnet.build.mecha, lugnet.off-topic.debate)
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