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 Administrative / Terms of Use / 485
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Subject: 
Re: LUGNET Posting Policy Update
Newsgroups: 
lugnet.admin.terms
Date: 
Wed, 29 Dec 2004 03:33:21 GMT
Viewed: 
8850 times
  
In lugnet.admin.terms, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
   In lugnet.admin.terms, Marc Nelson, Jr. wrote:
  
   In lugnet.admin.terms, Larry Pieniazek wrote:
   In lugnet.admin.terms, Marc Nelson, Jr. wrote:

snip

  
   For example, both your post and my reply are against the TOU:

8. (do not) Post non-plain-text content such as HTML, multi-part MIME messages, or so-called “binaries” including but not limited to: images, sounds, multimedia files, computer programs, and blocks of text created using binary-to-text conversion utilities such as BinHex, uuencode, btoa, and PGP message encryptions (short PGP signatures, however, are permitted by the server).

I scratched my head about this for a bit, as I wasn’t sure what you were getting at. But then I thought, perhaps you’re referring to FTX coding? (as an aside, it might be more helpful if you came right out and said what you meant rather than not saying what you mean)

I would argue that you might technically be right, except that FTX is almost plain-text, more so than HTML is. (and certainly way more so than all the other examples cited).

Still, I’m willing to admit that the ToS could stand a minor clarification to say that FTX, since it’s designed and developed to be used here, clearly is not in scope of the prohibitions listed. A reasonable person would probably know that already, I think.

Is the ToS intended to be something that’s interpreted or is it supposed to be hard and fast, full of thou shalt nots and subject to a lot of rules lawyering? I’m not actually sure I know the answer to that. Clarity is usually good. Except when it’s not or when people use a “letter of the law” mode to break the spirit.

I was referring to the fact that FTX and images within posts are prohibited

Possibly prohibited. I don’t see it that way, even without clarification

What part of the TOU is ambiguous? It says “It is a condition of your use of the discussion groups that you do not: (X)” - meaning that if you do X then you may not be allowed to use the discussion groups. Are there any other parts of the TOU that don’t mean what they say?

  
   by the TOU.

I saw the cite the last time, thanks. I do appreciate the re-citation just in case I didn’t see it (although I responded directly to it), but I think the quote of the specific paragraph like you did the first time is actually more useful than just linking the entire thing.

Didn’t mean anything by the link - I was just concerned that some people might not know where I was getting that paragraph from. It’s always best to cite your sources.

  
   A reasonable person who has been posting to LUGNET for years might know that the TOU is badly out of date and no longer reflects reality. But what about a newbie? I don’t see the benefits of an inaccurate or incomplete TOU.

Nor do I. As I already said. I think the ToS ought to be updated. Was there a further point you wanted to make? I’d rather hear about the larger philosophical question I asked about broad guidelines versus detailed prohibitions instead of debating the fine points of whether FTX is prohibited or not under the ToS as it stands today.

As you said, clarity is usually good, and I think that is true in this case as well.

  
   Which (if any) of your seven examples are prohibited by the new rules?

The same ones as before.

And those are...?

   This is a new administrative process, not new rules. I posted the examples in hopes that reasonable people would draw reasonable conclusions, not to spark rules lawyering.

If you have a specific complaint, make it to a member of the Transition Team, by email, and we’ll take under advisement and act accordingly.

You posted a list of examples that may or may not be grounds for a “timeout” - I think we should know what specific behaviors we should be avoiding. I wouldn’t want the absence of clear guidelines to have a chilling effect on LUGNET discussion.

Marc Nelson Jr.

Marc’s Creations



Message has 4 Replies:
  Re: LUGNET Posting Policy Update
 
(...) The part that questions whether FTX is allowed specifically. Images, as they appear in FTX are definitely ALLOWED by that rule, because you are not posting a binary image, as the TOU specifically indicates not to do, you are posting a URL to (...) (19 years ago, 29-Dec-04, to lugnet.admin.terms)
  Re: LUGNET Posting Policy Update
 
In lugnet.admin.terms, Marc Nelson, Jr. wrote: <snip> (...) In situations such as these, I often consult 'the oracle'... Judge Payton: "Judges are bound to interpret the Constitution within the strict parameters of the text itself. The Constitution (...) (19 years ago, 29-Dec-04, to lugnet.admin.terms)
  (canceled)
 
  Re: LUGNET Posting Policy Update
 
Repost with updated formatting to avoid FTX display bug, ironically enough... (...) Hello Marc, The perceived absence of clear guidelines, and lack of consequences for poor behavior, have already had a chilling effect on LUGNET discussion. That's (...) (19 years ago, 29-Dec-04, to lugnet.admin.terms, FTX)

Message is in Reply To:
  Re: LUGNET Posting Policy Update
 
(...) Possibly prohibited. I don't see it that way, even without clarification (...) I saw the cite the last time, thanks. I do appreciate the re-citation just in case I didn't see it (although I responded directly to it), but I think the quote of (...) (19 years ago, 29-Dec-04, to lugnet.admin.terms, FTX)

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