Subject:
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Re: Official and Unofficial theme categories
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lugnet.admin.database
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Mon, 11 Jan 1999 19:19:37 GMT
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blisses@worldnet.att.net (Steve Bliss) writes:
> > I -almost- made sub-categories of the so-called "classic" Space in the
> > Fibblesnork LEGO Guide but was talked out of it (I think by Steve Bliss) by
> > being shown many examples of boundary-straddling sets.
>
> Note: it probably wasn't me. I *think* FLG has been around longer than
> I have (my roll-call form says "late 1995").
>
> Steve
Well, I just remembered that you'd saved me from opening a huge can of worms.
:)
To be more accurate, I wanted to categorize the sets based on color scheme, and
it probably wasn't super-clear that I was considering breaking up the "Classic
Space" category in the FLG (birth = March 1996, BTW) into sub-categories.
OK, just dug up the thread on DejaNews... It was a gigantic thread on RTL about
"Good and Evil." Here's are the color/categories portions; looks like some good
long-term food for thought.
--Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
From: lehman@visi.com (Todd Lehman)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 11 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <58l2hv$249@darla.visi.com>
References: <cthomp.1.0013ADDD@acton2.ultranet.com> <E27C39.F2x@murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU> <58k4si$aas@darla.visi.com> <58k9po$5a9@frazier.backbone.ou.edu>
Organization: Fibblesnork Software
Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego
Jeff Thompson <jeff@teubner.com> writes:
> Todd Lehman <lehman@visi.com> writes:
> > Steve Jacquot <saj@kali.psyc.virginia.edu> writes:
> > > If color is anything to go by, Roboforce already has two subthemes, the
> > > orange guys (2151 and 2153) and the yellow guys (2152 and 2154), so you
> > > don't have to go outside the theme to find good/bad guys. Or it may
> > > not be a question of good and bad as much as it is just your guys vs. the
> > > other guys. I would expect to see other color schemes in future
> > > releases (the same basic black-grey with colored transparent bits and
> > > accents).
> >
> > Spyrius and classic Space also had multiple color schemes.
>
> And Futuron.
>
> Spyrius? How so? Do you think of Unitron as being
> a part of the Spyrius theme, as I do, or are you counting
> the droid as a differently-schemed minifig?
Aha.
While in the shower I just realized what the confusion is about.
I thought we were talking about the colors of the models (as opposed to
the minifigs).
Both RoboForce and Classic Space have differently-colored minifigs as well
as different color schemes on the models.
Spyrius has multiple color schemes on the models but only one color scheme
on the minifigs.
Futuron has multiple minifig colors but only one color scheme on the models.
Hope that clears up the confusion I created...
--Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
From: lehman@visi.com (Todd Lehman)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 11 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <58l316$2d6@darla.visi.com>
References: <cthomp.1.0013ADDD@acton2.ultranet.com> <58k4si$aas@darla.visi.com> <58k9po$5a9@frazier.backbone.ou.edu> <58l2hv$249@darla.visi.com>
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Todd Lehman <lehman@visi.com> writes:
> Jeff Thompson <jeff@teubner.com> writes:
> >
> > Spyrius? How so? Do you think of Unitron as being
> > a part of the Spyrius theme, as I do, [...]
(forgot my P.S.)
P.S. I don't think of Unitron as being part of Spyrius. To me it is a
totally separate theme which they just happened to introduce in the same
year (1994) as they introduced Spyrius.
The Unitron set 6991 (monorail base) has a Spyrius droid. I don't see that
crossover as anything special; other themes have incorporated crossovers like
this, for example Space Police I and Space Police II.
I don't think of Spyrius as being part of Unitron any more than I think of
Blacktron I as being part of Space Police I or Blacktron II as being part of
Space Police II.
> > [...] or are you counting
> > the droid as a differently-schemed minifig?
Yeh, I count both the Spyrius and the Explorien droids as having a
different color scheme from the other minifigs in their respective
series.
(I think I incorrectly said in the previous post that Spyrius minifigs
only had one color scheme.)
--Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 75620.47@compuserve.com (Steve Bliss)
Subject: Good and Evil
Date: 11 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <32aedd32.6669743@news>
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On Mon, 9 Dec 1996 07:27:59 GMT, cthomp@acton2.ultranet.com (Carl V.
Thompson) wrote:
> I just took a look at the new LEGO sets (which I think are really cool).
> However, I can't seem to tell who the evil ones are in the new space lines.
The UFOers are just unknown. Maybe friendly, maybe hostile, maybe
confused, maybe just alien (and not understandable).
RoboForce is LEGO Space's version of "Professional Wrestling".
My version of the (recent) space lines goes something like this:
Unitron = Townies. They run the Space Bases. May be colonists.
Ice Planet = Colonists (on cold planets, at least).
Spyrius = Bad guys.
Blacktron = Bad guys.
M:Tron = Explorers/Good guys.
Exploriens = Explorers/Good guys. Maybe research scientists.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
From: pjg@tranquility.gyugyi.com (Paul John Gyugyi)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 12 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <PJG.96Dec12004949@tranquility.gyugyi.com>
Sender: usenet@gyugyi.com (for nntp posting)
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There seem to be several sub-races of the U.F.O.'s:
a red cyclops, a blue bug-eyed guy, and a
trans-flourescent-green-head with brain-salad-surgery-style facial
features. Also, the red and blue guys seem to have SHORT LEGS.
At least they look like they are standing up, but seem shorter!
--
=--=-==--=--=-=-=--==-=-==--=-==-=-=-=-=-=-==--==-=-==--==-=-==-==
Paul Gyugyi paul@gyugyi.com http://www.gyugyi.com/
Gyugyi Cybernetics DSP, LEGO, Mountain Dew, Be, Raytracing
Smiling 2" pieces of plastic have *no* effect on my state of mind.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 75620.47@compuserve.com (Steve Bliss)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 13 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <32b1911e.4811306@news.sprynet.com>
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On 13 Dec 1996 02:49:36 GMT, jeff@teubner.com (Nephilim) wrote:
> Surrounding that guess is a larger hunch that , after the early 80s,
> the designers weren't trying very hard to follow a strict color
> scheme. So, by the mid-80s, things were pretty chaotic. They had
> 'tendancies' towards certain color schemes, but didn't feel obliged to
> follow them strictly if mixing them up made something more aesthetically
> pleasing to do so.
I think you've come upon a Universal Truth (TM) here. In general,
LEGO designers are going to more concerned with (a) asthetics for a
particular set and (b) how the look-and-feel of a subtheme is carried
out in a set. They aren't going to just take a specification of color
usage and stick to it.
Steve Bliss
________________________________________________________________________________
From: lehman@visi.com (Todd Lehman)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 13 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <58sb72$oou@darla.visi.com>
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Jeff Thompson <jeff@teubner.com> writes:
> It's not the only one. 6931 FX Star Patroller does this, too. The cargo
> bay / craft hull blue and gold, ala classic scheme #1 - reminescent of
> LL928. However, the detachable front craft is gray + black with a
> trans-blue canopy -- a modified scheme #5? A different scheme
> altogether?
Cool, yes, forgot about that one!
> Surrounding that guess is a larger hunch that , after the early 80s,
> the designers weren't trying very hard to follow a strict color
> scheme. So, by the mid-80s, things were pretty chaotic. They had
> 'tendancies' towards certain color schemes, but didn't feel obliged to
> follow them strictly if mixing them up made something more aesthetically
> pleasing to do so.
Yes, and the deviations are very minor usually.
Blacktron I had one deviation from this -- trans-green 1x1 plates in
6894 Invader.
Space Police I, Space Police II, M:Tron, and Ice Planet were all
incredibly strict (too strict, IMHO).
--Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
From: lehman@visi.com (Todd Lehman)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 11 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <58l4f8$3g8@darla.visi.com>
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Jeff Thompson <jeff@teubner.com> writes:
> Almost. I still only see one color scheme for Spyrius - red and black.
> Unless you're counting the different colored canopies (dark blue vs
> deep red).
Yes. I count a color scheme as a distinct grouping of main solid color,
plus, 1 or 2 accent solid colors, plus a main translucent color, plus
1 or 2 accent translucent colors.
I -almost- think of the Classic Space series as being 5 different series.
--Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 75620.47@compuserve.com (Steve Bliss)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 12 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <32b0499d.13818194@news.sprynet.com>
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On 11 Dec 1996 01:58:00 GMT, lehman@visi.com (Todd Lehman) wrote:
> Yes. I count a color scheme as a distinct grouping of main solid color,
> plus, 1 or 2 accent solid colors, plus a main translucent color, plus
> 1 or 2 accent translucent colors.
Well, that's sort of limited (but fairly accurate, history-wise).
I'd say a color scheme is the description of main and accent colors
used by a theme. The number of different colors doesn't really
matter.
The color scheme for Spyruis (that's SPEER-ee-us) was (*was*--sniff
sniff, tears flowing) red and black, with some dark grey accents.
Trans-dark blue, Trans-red and Trans-antifreeze were used fairly
evenly, except trans-antifreeze was never used for windows/cockpit
covers.
Steve Bliss
________________________________________________________________________________
From: jeremiah@iies.ecn.purdue.edu (Jeremiah)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 13 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <58qcfi$h2u@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
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In article <32b0499d.13818194@news.sprynet.com> 75620.47@compuserve.com (Steve Bliss) writes:
> The color scheme for Spyruis (that's SPEER-ee-us) was (*was*--sniff
^^^^
How do you get 'ee-uh' out of -u-i- ?
jage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 75620.47@compuserve.com (Steve Bliss)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 13 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <32b191c7.4980711@news.sprynet.com>
References: <58l36p$rbu@frazier.backbone.ou.edu> <58l4f8$3g8@darla.visi.com> <32b0499d.13818194@news.sprynet.com> <58qcfi$h2u@mozo.cc.purdue.edu>
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On 13 Dec 1996 01:45:22 GMT, jeremiah@iies.ecn.purdue.edu (Jeremiah)
wrote:
> In article <32b0499d.13818194@news.sprynet.com> 75620.47@compuserve.com (Steve Bliss) writes:
> > The color scheme for Spyruis (that's SPEER-ee-us) was (*was*--sniff
> ^^^^
> How do you get 'ee-uh' out of -u-i- ?
Well, it works better when I spell it right. <g> S-P-Y-R-I-U-S.
Steve Bliss
________________________________________________________________________________
From: lehman@visi.com (Todd Lehman)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 13 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <58qble$acl@darla.visi.com>
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Steve Bliss <75620.47@compuserve.com> writes:
> > Yes. I count a color scheme as a distinct grouping of main solid color,
> > plus, 1 or 2 accent solid colors, plus a main translucent color, plus
> > 1 or 2 accent translucent colors.
>
> Well, that's sort of limited (but fairly accurate, history-wise).
Hmm. In what way is it limited?
> I'd say a color scheme is the description of main and accent colors
> used by a theme. The number of different colors doesn't really
> matter.
Wouldn't you say this is actually more limited? Lumps things into
too few categories, misses the fact that some series have multiple
color schemes and multiple main and accent colors.
> The color scheme for Spyruis (that's SPEER-ee-us) was (*was*--sniff
> sniff, tears flowing) red and black, with some dark grey accents.
That's half the color scheme. The translucent window and glass
colors count too. Just like trans-yellow was a very integral part of
and a defining characteristic of the first classic space sets.
The way I see it, Classic Space has 6 major distinct color schemes:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows Trans-accent
1. Blue Gray various Trans-Yellow Trans-Red/Green
2. Blue White various Trans-Yellow Trans-Red
3. Blue White Black Trans-Blue Trans-Red
4. White Black various Trans-Blue Trans-Red
5. Gray White Black Trans-Blue Trans-Red
6. Gray Black various Trans-Green Trans-Red
(Source: FLG)
Sometimes the trans color was omitted, for example in 6870 and 6842,
when there's no need for a window or any clear parts. Sometimes also
the primary color was omitted in spall sets, for example 452 or 442.
6927 is an odd sort of beast -- half of it is from color scheme #1
and the other half is from color scheme #3. Pretty weird, huh?
I don't have an explanation for this. Jeff? Tim? Gyug?
I was thinking of sub-categorizing all the classic space sets on FLG
into these categories, but I'm not sure people would generally like that.
> Trans-dark blue, Trans-red and Trans-antifreeze were used fairly
> evenly, except trans-antifreeze was never used for windows/cockpit
> covers.
When I see Spyrius, I see 2 distinct color schemes:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows Trans-accent
1. Black Red Dark Gray Trans-Blue Trans-Neon-Yellow
2. Black Red Dark Gray Trans-Red Trans-Neon-Yellow
(That is, because I am forced to see the variety of canopy colors in Classic
Space as a profound thing, I see Spyrius as having 2 color themes, rather
than 1.)
I see RoboForce like this:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows/Trans-accent
1. Gray Black Blue Trans-Neon-Orange
2. Gray Black Blue/Yellow Trans-Neon-Yellow
I see M:Tron as having 1 very strict color scheme:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows/Trans-accent
1. Red Black Gray Trans-Neon-Yellow
I see Blacktron I as having 1 very strict color scheme:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows Trans-accent
1. Black Yellow Gray Trans-Yellow Trans-Red
6894 Invader was the only BT1 set to use trans-green, and I see that as
somewhat of a special anomaly because it used them very delicately in
two 1x1 plates.
1875 is also sort of an anomaly. It's sort of BT 1.5:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Trans-accent
1. Black White none Trans-Red
I see Space Police I like this:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows/Trans-accent
1. Black Blue none Trans-Red
And Space Police II like this:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows/Trans-accent
1. Gray Black Red Trans-Green
And Futuron like this:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows Trans-accent
1. White Black none Trans-Blue Trans-Red
And Ice Planet like this:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows/Trans-accent
1. White Blue Black Trans-Neon-Orange
And Blacktron II like this:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows Trans-accent
1. Black White none Trans-Neon-Yellow Trans-Red
And Exploriens like this:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows Trans-accent
1. White Black none Trans-Blue Trans-Neon-Yellow
And Unitron like this:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows Trans-accent
1. Gray Black Blue Trans-Blue Trans-Neon-Yellow
--Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 75620.47@compuserve.com (Steve Bliss)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 13 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <32b1859a.1862447@news.sprynet.com>
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On 13 Dec 1996 01:31:26 GMT, lehman@visi.com (Todd Lehman) wrote:
> Steve Bliss <75620.47@compuserve.com> writes:
> > > Yes. I count a color scheme as a distinct grouping of main solid color,
> > > plus, 1 or 2 accent solid colors, plus a main translucent color, plus
> > > 1 or 2 accent translucent colors.
> >
> > Well, that's sort of limited (but fairly accurate, history-wise).
>
> Hmm. In what way is it limited?
It's too simplistic and limiting: it attempts to describe color usage
by limiting the number of colors used. Now, I can't *really* imagine
using more than 3 solid colors in one model, but in Spyrius, I'd
consider red and black to both be main colors. Plus, there may be
specific considerations for a particular color use. Two examples:
1. Spyrius uses red, blue, and antifreeze transparent pieces. But
antifreeze is *never* used for canopies/windows. This is a somewhat
important note.
2. The main colors for Exploriens are black and white. But (and this
is very subjective) the Exploriens models tend to show white *on*
black--the black pieces form a core (or indicate/invoke an underlying
skeleton/frame/structure), and the white pieces *tend* to indicate
finishes or overlaying coverings.
So it's not only what colors are used, but *how* they are used.
Again, this is all subjective. And I'm no expert on design or colors.
> > I'd say a color scheme is the description of main and accent colors
> > used by a theme. The number of different colors doesn't really
> > matter.
>
> Wouldn't you say this is actually more limited? Lumps things into
> too few categories, misses the fact that some series have multiple
> color schemes and multiple main and accent colors.
No, I'd say it's purposely vague. <g> It doesn't specify things that
shouldn't be specified (such as color count). It allows the person
writing the description of the color scheme include as much or as
little detail as possible. For example, in Ice Planet, I'd think it
was pretty important to point out that wheels are white.
> > The color scheme for Spyruis (that's SPEER-ee-us) was (*was*--sniff
> > sniff, tears flowing) red and black, with some dark grey accents.
>
> That's half the color scheme. The translucent window and glass
> colors count too. Just like trans-yellow was a very integral part of
> and a defining characteristic of the first classic space sets.
That's why the next sentence in my post described the use of
trans-colors in Spyrius. It was all one paragraph, ya know?
> When I see Spyrius, I see 2 distinct color schemes:
>
> Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows Trans-accent
>
> 1. Black Red Dark Gray Trans-Blue Trans-Neon-Yellow
> 2. Black Red Dark Gray Trans-Red Trans-Neon-Yellow
I can see this approach, but then are you going to form more color
schemes to cover the use of different trans-colors for accents (hey!
doesn't Recon Robot have *clear* eyes?)? And there are only 5 sets,
plus a "bonus pack" (the mini-Star Hawk II) (wait, was there another
bonus pack?) and a polybag. Doesn't seem like enough to start making
subdivisions from. So I'd rather outline specific uses of color in
one, unified color scheme. Otherwise, the LEGO designers would think
they could use either color scheme however they wanted. <g>
So I'd still describe Spyrius's color scheme like this: "The main
colors are red and black (or maybe red on black) with optional dark
gray accents. Robots have red windows; vehicles/bases have dark blue
windows. Transparent accents may be anti-freeze, trans-dark blue or
trans-red."
> (That is, because I am forced to see the variety of canopy colors in Classic
> Space as a profound thing, I see Spyrius as having 2 color themes, rather
> than 1.)
Like I said, I can understand this approach. It's just not my
preference. I'd rather view it as one scheme, with specific
variations.
> I see M:Tron as having 1 very strict color scheme:
>
> Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows/Trans-accent
>
> 1. Red Black Gray Trans-Neon-Yellow
Dragging this back to all the blahblah above about Spyrius, this is
why I disagree with enforced categorization of 1 main color, 1
secondary color, etc. Spyrius's main color is not red, and it's not
black. It's red *and* black. Reduce or remove one color or the
other, and it's a different scheme. OTOH, M:Tron's main color is
definitely red (trying to remember all the M:Tron pictures I've seen).
Steve Bliss
Not an expert, just opinionated
________________________________________________________________________________
From: lehman@visi.com (Todd Lehman)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 13 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <58se9g$qrv@darla.visi.com>
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Steve Bliss <75620.47@compuserve.com> writes:
> It's too simplistic and limiting: it attempts to describe color usage
> by limiting the number of colors used.
They're categories.
They're not attempting to limit the number of colors used. They highlight
the most-used colors and ignore the least-used or anomalous colors.
Nothing in the chart says there can't be a quarternary color. The chart
simply ignores quarternary colors.
If you have a chart with 3 solid colors (a primary, a secondary, and a
tertiary) and 2 trans-colors (a primary and an accent/secondary), then
99% of all Space sets fit into these groups. The remaining 1% fit into
2 of these groups a la 6927 or 6931.
That may arguably make the system somewhat simplistic, but it certainly isn't
limiting.
The purpose of the system is not to document each and every color used
in each and every set (what would be the point of that? -- there would be 100
groups), but to create a good, small, reasonable set of categories into which
all Space sets fit.
To me, 6876 and 6894 have the same color scheme, even though 6894 has
trans-green and 6876 does not. To me, the BT1 color scheme includes
trans-green, but 6894 is the only set of the 5 original BT1 sets that
chose to use it.
Perhaps I should track a quarternary color and make it optional, as
the tertiary color is in some sub-themes.
> Now, I can't *really* imagine using more than 3 solid colors in one model,
Many, many, Space sets did...for example 462, 483, 487, 497, 1557, 6881,
6890, 6927, 6929, 6930, 6950, 6951, 6970, 6971.
> but in Spyrius, I'd
> consider red and black to both be main colors. Plus, there may be
> specific considerations for a particular color use. Two examples:
>
> 1. Spyrius uses red, blue, and antifreeze transparent pieces. But
> antifreeze is *never* used for canopies/windows. This is a somewhat
> important note.
Yup, anitifreeze is a translucent accent color in Spyrius.
> 2. The main colors for Exploriens are black and white. But (and this
> is very subjective) the Exploriens models tend to show white *on*
> black--the black pieces form a core (or indicate/invoke an underlying
> skeleton/frame/structure), and the white pieces *tend* to indicate
> finishes or overlaying coverings.
I see Exploriens the other way -- probably I have a more simplistic view.
I see white taking up 75-80% of the surface area, so I see white as
the primary color and black as the secondary color.
> So it's not only what colors are used, but *how* they are used.
Yehh, that's cool...
> Again, this is all subjective. And I'm no expert on design or colors.
Me neither.
> > > I'd say a color scheme is the description of main and accent colors
> > > used by a theme. The number of different colors doesn't really
> > > matter.
> >
> > Wouldn't you say this is actually more limited? Lumps things into
> > too few categories, misses the fact that some series have multiple
> > color schemes and multiple main and accent colors.
>
> No, I'd say it's purposely vague. <g> It doesn't specify things that
> shouldn't be specified (such as color count). It allows the person
> writing the description of the color scheme include as much or as
> little detail as possible. For example, in Ice Planet, I'd think it
> was pretty important to point out that wheels are white.
OK.
I think we're thinking of this from two toally different angles and
for two different reasons.
I'm thinking of this from a "put each set in a pigeonhole" angle, for
the purposes of saying "this set has this color scheme" or "all these
sets have the same color scheme" in a database/web thing.
> That's why the next sentence in my post described the use of
> trans-colors in Spyrius. It was all one paragraph, ya know?
Yes, sorry.
> > When I see Spyrius, I see 2 distinct color schemes:
> >
> > Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows Trans-accent
> >
> > 1. Black Red Dark Gray Trans-Blue Trans-Neon-Yellow
> > 2. Black Red Dark Gray Trans-Red Trans-Neon-Yellow
>
> I can see this approach, but then are you going to form more color
> schemes to cover the use of different trans-colors for accents (hey!
> doesn't Recon Robot have *clear* eyes?)?
Naw, I don't count 6889's eyes -- too minor in the "scheme of things." :)
To me the phrase "color scheme" is an approximation of the set of
colors a set has -- not an exact recording of the colors.
If I wear a red shirt and blue pants, I'm wearing a red and blue
color scheme. If I happen to have a brown belt on and yellow shoelaces,
I don't count those. Ten other people also wearing red and blue would
have the same color scheme as I did even if they had different color
shoelaces.
> And there are only 5 sets,
> plus a "bonus pack" (the mini-Star Hawk II) (wait, was there another
> bonus pack?) and a polybag. Doesn't seem like enough to start making
> subdivisions from. So I'd rather outline specific uses of color in
> one, unified color scheme. Otherwise, the LEGO designers would think
> they could use either color scheme however they wanted. <g>
>
> So I'd still describe Spyrius's color scheme like this: "The main
> colors are red and black (or maybe red on black) with optional dark
> gray accents. Robots have red windows; vehicles/bases have dark blue
> windows. Transparent accents may be anti-freeze, trans-dark blue or
> trans-red."
I like that. How can I encode that in a database?
> > (That is, because I am forced to see the variety of canopy colors in Classic
> > Space as a profound thing, I see Spyrius as having 2 color themes, rather
> > than 1.)
>
> Like I said, I can understand this approach. It's just not my
> preference. I'd rather view it as one scheme, with specific
> variations.
I like this (your) approach as well. I'm interested in how the two approaches
can be combined.
> > I see M:Tron as having 1 very strict color scheme:
> >
> > Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows/Trans-accent
> >
> > 1. Red Black Gray Trans-Neon-Yellow
>
> Dragging this back to all the blahblah above about Spyrius, this is
> why I disagree with enforced categorization of 1 main color, 1
> secondary color, etc. Spyrius's main color is not red, and it's not
> black. It's red *and* black. Reduce or remove one color or the
> other, and it's a different scheme. OTOH, M:Tron's main color is
> definitely red (trying to remember all the M:Tron pictures I've seen).
Yehh, definitely a lotta gray area here.
Say Joshua, what do you make of all of this? Now that I better understand
what Steve is saying, I think I like it a lot.
--Todd
________________________________________________________________________________
From: 75620.47@compuserve.com (Steve Bliss)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 16 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <32b568c6.3742940@news.sprynet.com>
References: <cthomp.1.0013ADDD@acton2.ultranet.com> <32b0499d.13818194@news.sprynet.com> <58qble$acl@darla.visi.com> <32b1859a.1862447@news.sprynet.com> <58se9g$qrv@darla.visi.com>
Organization: Sprynet News Service
Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego
On 13 Dec 1996 20:28:32 GMT, lehman@visi.com (Todd Lehman) wrote:
> I'm thinking of this from a "put each set in a pigeonhole" angle, for
> the purposes of saying "this set has this color scheme" or "all these
> sets have the same color scheme" in a database/web thing.
Not to beat a dead horse, but "pigeonholing" was what I was trying to
avoid. <g> Check Gyugyi's posting on the Unitron scheme. What he
describes (using similar solid and trans colors) is another aspect I
hadn't touched on, and hadn't appreciated.
> I like that. How can I encode that in a database?
Color schemes are a non-categoric thing. That is, you can't
adequately describe all possible colors schemes with a few enumerated
fields in a database. A couple of ideas, off the top of my head:
1. Use a single memo field and a good search engine. Definitely the
simplest solution.
2. Allow a list of colors and their usage. So input for Spyrius might
look like:
Color Usage
------------------ --------------------------------
Red Main color
Black Main color
Dark Grey Accent color
Antifreeze Accent color
Trans-Dk Blue Vehicle canopies
Trans-Dk Blue Accent color
Trans-Red Robot windows
Notice that there is little or no error-checking possible on
this--colors can be used multiple times, and Usages can be any text
(although providing standard Usages would be a Good Thing).
3. (Use with either 1 or 2) Give color schemes names (or codes) and
use the names for each model. This would make things simpler for the
person entering the data...
4. (Use with 3 and either 1 or 2) Besides the name/code for the main
color scheme, also allow for exceptions in a particular set.
Exceptions are important, too!
Steve Bliss
________________________________________________________________________________
From: pjg@tranquility.gyugyi.com (Paul John Gyugyi)
Subject: Re: Good and Evil
Date: 14 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <PJG.96Dec14130606@tranquility.gyugyi.com>
Sender: usenet@gyugyi.com (for nntp posting)
References: <cthomp.1.0013ADDD@acton2.ultranet.com> <58l36p$rbu@frazier.backbone.ou.edu>
Organization: Gyugyi Cybernetics
Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego
In article <58qble$acl@darla.visi.com> lehman@visi.com (Todd Lehman) writes:
And Unitron like this:
Primary Secondary Tertiary Windows Trans-accent
1. Gray Black Blue Trans-Blue Trans-Neon-Yellow
I think Blue is the secondary color, but its pretty close. The basic
ground structures are mostly grey/black, but the vehicles and ground
accents have a bit more blue than black. Then again, the trans-blue
might be throwing me off. Unlike other sets, the use of bricks that
are nearly the same color as the windows pulls the set together,
making the blue stronger. Looks like the Robo-Guardian tried to do
this, but there were too many red bricks, not arranged in a
vertical flow, so the set doesn't pull together as well.
--
=--=-==--=--=-=-=--==-=-==--=-==-=-=-=-=-=-==--==-=-==--==-=-==-==
Paul Gyugyi paul@gyugyi.com http://www.gyugyi.com/
Gyugyi Cybernetics DSP, LEGO, Mountain Dew, Be, Raytracing
Smiling 2" pieces of plastic have *no* effect on my state of mind.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: dulcaoin@cse.ucsc.edu (Joshua Delahunty)
Subject: Primary, Secondary, Tertiary, Quaternary, was Re: Good and Evil
Date: 16 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <594ctk$8p4@darkstar.ucsc.edu>
References: <cthomp.1.0013ADDD@acton2.ultranet.com> <58qble$acl@darla.visi.com> <32b1859a.1862447@news.sprynet.com> <58se9g$qrv@darla.visi.com>
Organization: UC Santa Cruz CIS/CE
Reply-to: dulcaoin@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu
Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego
In article <58se9g$qrv@darla.visi.com>, Todd Lehman <lehman@visi.com> wrote:
> Steve Bliss <75620.47@compuserve.com> writes:
> > It's too simplistic and limiting: it attempts to describe color usage
> > by limiting the number of colors used.
>
> They're categories.
>
> They're not attempting to limit the number of colors used. They highlight
> the most-used colors and ignore the least-used or anomalous colors.
> Nothing in the chart says there can't be a quarternary color. The chart • ^^^^^^^^^^^
> simply ignores quarternary colors.
^^^^^^^^^^^
[Caution, this is close to Pedant's Corner stuff. I try not to bring
up spelling in public, but when you use a 2 dollar word like that one,
well, all bets should be off, no? :-) Todd did ask my opinion on it
(see below), but somehow I don't think this is what he meant. :-)]
I have often wondered on-and-off what the "next" item after tertiary
was. Todd's usage got me excited about it enough to look it up.
It's actually "quaternary" rather than "quarternary."
As much as I've looked, I still can't find the "next" item.
Anybody know it?
-- joshua
Postscript:
> Say Joshua, what do you make of all of this? Now that I better understand
> what Steve is saying, I think I like it a lot.
Sorry, your use of quarternary got me sidetracked. I'll try to go back
and read more carefully to get back to the point. :-)
--
-- Joshua Delahunty (dulcaoin@alumni.cse.ucsc.edu) RTL CMR/IRL's: 6 --
--
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
| Kun det bedste er godt nok |
+-------------------------------------------------------------------------+
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David A. Ellis" <dqe0916@is4.nyu.edu>
Subject: Re: Primary, Secondary, Tertiary, Quaternary, was Re: Good and Evil
Date: 17 Dec 1996 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <01bbec49$cd308f20$8aed7a80@default>
References: <cthomp.1.0013ADDD@acton2.ultranet.com> <58qble$acl@darla.visi.com> <32b1859a.1862447@news.sprynet.com> <58se9g$qrv@darla.visi.com> <594ctk$8p4@darkstar.ucsc.edu>
Organization: New York University
Newsgroups: rec.toys.lego
> I have often wondered on-and-off what the "next" item after tertiary
> was. Todd's usage got me excited about it enough to look it up.
>
> It's actually "quaternary" rather than "quarternary."
>
> As much as I've looked, I still can't find the "next" item.
>
> Anybody know it?
>
> -- joshua
Quintanary (then I suppose it would be sexanary, heptanary, octanary, and
so forth)
David Ellis
________________________________________________________________________________
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