Subject:
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Re: LEGO trains...The Future of Model Railroading?
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.trains
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Date:
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Mon, 22 Nov 1999 01:21:09 GMT
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Reply-To:
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johnneal@+AntiSpam+uswest.net
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1069 times
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Jim Rorstrom wrote:
> In lugnet.trains, John R. Clark writes:
>
> > Attitude 1: Model Railroaders.
> > I took my LEGO catalog into the local train and hobby shop about a year ago, to
> > show the owner the potential of LEGO trains, and to suggest that it might be
> > something to consider carrying. He seemed to be a bitter old man, and his
> > response to me was essentially, "We don't sell -toys-," with derision in his
> > voice on that last word. I tactfully avoided pointing out to him that Lionel
> > trains were considered toys for many years, until the collectors took them
> > over.
> >
> > My opinion is that many model railroaders are slightly bitter and defensive
> > that kids are not interested in trains the way they used to be, and slightly
> > afraid that if things don't change, model railroading may be a dying art. But
> > in the same way that LEGO purists are often unreasonable in their quest to stay
> > 100% LEGO (I'm guilty of this too), Model Railroaders have a very hard time
> > with the idea of a model railroad that does not, and will not ever look even
> > close to "realistic" (with appologies to some of the admittedly impressive LEGO
> > locomotive recreations out there).
> >
> > As a case in point, at the recent PNWLTC layout at the '99 Western Washington
> > State Fair in Puyallup, I spoke to a man who had organized the fair's displays
> > of local model railroad club layouts for something like 11 years. Each year a
> > different guage was featured, and members of differently-guaged clubs -always-
> > came out to help man each others' layouts. PNWLTC was told that, as other clubs
> > had in previous years, they could count on the model railroad community to help
> > with staffing for the 16 day event. Well, as you may have guessed, the layout
> > was understaffed. A couple railroading guys came out a couple of days, and they
> > were fairly impressed, but my impression was that they considered it mostly a
> > novelty, and possibly somewhat beneath them. And this was a huge, complex
> > layout, with some of the finest LEGO modelling there is. (Gallery at
> > http://www.pnltc.org/WWF0999/W_Wash_Fair_Main_0999.htm )
>
>
> It would be interesting to hear from someone modeling N scale back in the 60's
> when it was considered a toy by the model railroad establishment. It would
> really help if the NMRA recognized us (BIG STEP).
What exactly did you have in mind? The president already told the GMLTC that what
we were doing was just as valid as what anyone else was doing at the NMRA
convention and personally invited all of us to join the org.
> > Personally, I think that LEGO railroading could be utilized by N, HO, and O
> > clubs as a "gateway" to model railroading. You can get kids hooked from very
> > early (my 2 1/2 year old has been playing with mine for more than 6 months,
> > now) without worrying about them damaging valuable models. Then, as they get
> > more sophisticated, and especially as they enter their dark ages, they can be
> > easily switched over to the other guages. That's my idea of it anyway.
>
>
> My 4 year old and 2 1/2 year old are the primary reasons my N-Scale is in the
> drawer and the Lego train is on the table. For the model (potential)
> railroader with a family playablity and indistructablity are two very compeling
> reasons to go Lego.
>
> > Attutide 2: LEGO.
> > LEGO seems to be almost anti-train in the US. I understand that they don't want
> > to devote a lot of time and effort on a line that is a comparitive low seller,
> > but it often seems to me that they do anything they can to avoid making it
> > easier for us to buy trains. Note the following:
> > A. Only one train is available through retail channels. Even if a store
> > -wanted- to carry additional trains, track, accessories and train structures,
> > they would not be able to. Lego's Shop-at-Home items are not availible to
> > retailers.
> > B. If a store wanted to carry the one LEGO train which is available, there is a
> > minimum order of something like $500, and returns are not an option. A small
> > model shop that wanted to try the product out to see if it would sell will not
> > be willing to outlay that much cash on a product they don't know will sell, and
> > that they don't think much of anyway (see Attitude 1).
> > C. I considered opening a LEGO train kiosk at the mall at Christmastime a year
> > or two ago. That is, I considered it until I called LEGO. They won't sell
> > products to a retailer unless they have a permanent storefront. An
> > understandable policy to avoid shady dealings, but easily overcome in other
> > ways. It would be a simple matter to produce documentation that all sales were
> > legitimate.
> > D. The fact is, placing LEGO trains in toy stores is simply not a good
> > marketing strategy except at Christmas. People looking for a LEGO set are
> > usually looking for the under-$20 range. And people looking for model trains
> > are not in the LEGO aisle. Potential customers for the product never see it.
> > For that matter, No one ever sees it (Or maybe you've never heard anyone say,
> > "I didn't know LEGO made trains!"?).
> > E. LEGO does pretty much nothing to help the LEGO train clubs in the US. I
> > haven't persued this except to make some initial inquiries, but LEGO Group did
> > not exactly jump at the chance to provide either materials or permissions to
> > reproduce materials (specifically, the small train flyer (can be seen at
> > http://astro.caltech.edu/~rrg/lego/smeu1999v2f.jpg Thanks to Roy Gal's site,
> > http://astro.caltech.edu/~rrg/lego/legocats.html))
> > Actually, if you think about it, the best place to sell LEGO trains and
> > accessories may well be at the train shows. Every other guage is busy selling
> > everything they can, while LEGO remains display-only (per LEGO's policies).
>
> We are in a unique position in model railroading having only 1 supplier.
Very unique. In fact, what if Mega Blocks came out with trains tomorrow? Would we
rush to buy them? I think a lot of us (including me) would have a juicy dilemma.
There is something to be said for an *ALL* LEGO layout. Stray too far from that,
or stray at all, and then the purpose becomes muddled-- if you want all of that
other stuff in model railroading, then why not stick to model railroading?
> Other
> scales/types have at least limited competition. As frustrating as it is for us
> Lego is not compelled to be responsive to our needs and desires. If I were the
> a manager of Lego I would think it would make long term bussiness sense,
> however. The fact is if Lego is not responsive there is no one to pick up the
> ball and do it better. Therefore we should continue to do what we are doing (I
> hope to do) with Lego train clubs, GATS and so on. If we continue to increase
> our visibility in a positive way Lego should eventually respond.
Should, but let's not hold our breath. And let's keep as "pure" as we can.
> > Attutude 3: LEGO Train fans.
> > The third problem is our own fault. I think it's minor compared to the other
> > two, but it's a problem nevertheless. And I'm as guilty of it as anyone. We're
> > not doing much to encourage kids to join us. Sales to kids is where the money
> > is for LEGO. But when I was at the Washington show, the person who had come
> > with me to the fair pointed out that those of us staffing the layout were a
> > little bit standoffish toward the kids who came to see the layout. We were very
> > busy making sure they weren't touching the trains, and I myself was more
> > interested in talking to other adults than to the kids. Now I'll admit I don't
> > care for kids much (other people's, at least), and kids in the 7-12 range can
> > be particularly talkative about the most inane of topics. But treating them
> > like second-class LEGO fans is not helping matters. We gotta figure a way to
> > include them in the layouts at the show, without them knocking everything over.
> > (I know some of the clubs have a special kids area, but I think that's the
> > exception.)
>
>
> This may be a sensitive topic for those without kids but I think involving kids
> is pivotal for the success of Lego trains. They are the trump card we hold
> when compared to most other scales/types. I think the kid's areas are a great
> idea. Better yet would be for adult train club members to involve their kids
> and possibly friends in the design and operation of these kids areas. I
> realize this would be a bit of a streach for those not used to working with
> kids but, I think we have a unique opportunity here. I would be interested in
> positive and negative experiences LTC members out there have had with kids
> involvement.
For the GMLTC, it is *always* positive. They are the main reason why we show.
That is, however, without a kid area thing. Personally, I don't think that sort of
thing is necessary for kids to have a positive experience. We are, after all, a
LTC, not TLC;-)
-John
>
> > Not really sure how to wrap up this diatribe, but that's my two dollars and two
> > cent's worth. Am I off in left field, or have I hit some nails? And if I'm on
> > target, what shall we do about it?
>
> Right on!
>
> - Jim
>
> ----
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Message has 2 Replies:
 | | Re: LEGO trains...The Future of Model Railroading?
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| (...) Have Lego listed as a special interest group, for example. (...) Has anyone joined. Will be interesting to see how the membership reacts. (...) Did I suggest that there should or would be another supplier? No. It is simply a fact of life. Lego (...) (25 years ago, 22-Nov-99, to lugnet.trains)
| | | Re: LEGO trains...The Future of Model Railroading?
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| (...) Would we (...) dilemma. (...) that, (...) that (...) I must say, if someone like Mega Blocks started offering Lego compatible automated points or some of the other accessory items that the Lego train community has been clamoring for, I'd (...) (25 years ago, 22-Nov-99, to lugnet.trains)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: LEGO trains...The Future of Model Railroading?
|
| (...) It would be interesting to hear from someone modeling N scale back in the 60's when it was considered a toy by the model railroad establishment. It would really help if the NMRA recognized us (BIG STEP). (...) My 4 year old and 2 1/2 year old (...) (25 years ago, 21-Nov-99, to lugnet.trains)
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