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I finally had some LEGO time. Given the rate that RC Racer motors suck up current, Using two pumps with two motors and two battery packs, is about the best I can do. I did some measuring and calculating (only outer diameters :^( A large piston has (...) (20 years ago, 1-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Well that depends on how they're routed down the line. If they all pass through a single hose at any point, bang goes your bandwidth. ROSCO (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Not necessarily. If they're compressing in a rotating series, your output at any given moment is much smaller than if they were going off all at the same time, and the more positions you can get in the series, the steadier your stream of (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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Are you going to make sure that all your control logic is done with small pistons? That would seem to save a lot of air, and thus perhaps also speed the system up quite a bit. (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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Often, at work on Friday afternoon, we have informal discussions about stuff completely unrelated to work. This morning, I stood up and looked over my cube walls (not hard, they're only 4 ft tall) and said I had a question. I didn't get much (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Ok, so my co-worker (with a degree in physics) said (after many calculations) that the Work is directly related to the Volume. Assuming 6 small pistons pump the same volume as 1 large piston, it will take the same amount of work. Keep in mind, (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) One thing not represented in your calculations is time. Compressing one large pump takes more force than it takes to compress one small pump. With six small pumps seperated by 60 degress of phase. We can compress/expand six small pumps in the (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Hi Benton, In my experience small pistons do not control switches very well. They only produce 1/4 the force a large piston does. I've made one small piston walker (URL) . It uses two pistons per switch, and the switches were chosen (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) ... (...) That's what I was trying to say above. Sometimes, I think faster than I type, so all the details don't make it to my fingers... Yes, adding pistons at various angles will help even out the "work" required. So, 2 large pistions at 180 (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) I knew what you were saying, but I was explaining it for those who couldn't read between the lines...... I'm going to try a radial design. Medium pulleys have six pin holes, so I suspect that I'll have two groups of six. I have yet to come up (...) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) If you rotate the pulley 90 degrees on the axle, the holes will be in the right place. Another option is to mount the other end of the pistons at 30 degrees (like a rotary engine) (20 years ago, 2-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) You are absolutely right of course.... You'd think I'd have a better understanding of hexagons than that. :^) Kevin (20 years ago, 3-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) While a rotary design will probably be a bit more powerful, laying them all flat could be more versatile. You could place cylinders anywhere you've got a little open space, rather than having to make space for a bulky cluster of them. (URL) (...) (20 years ago, 3-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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(...) Hi David, Thanks for the ideas. I'll consider the planar design concept (done them before with large pumps), but first I want to try radial. I'm curious which design would have less moving parts? Less moving parts, less friction, higher (...) (20 years ago, 4-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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(...) From what I've been told of mechanical physics, part distortion is also a concern. There's a tradeoff between making the pump design sturdier and keeping the overall weight/size down. Flat component pumps can be squeezed into available empty (...) (20 years ago, 5-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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I know how much Steve likes to wait, so...... I got enough three blade rotor parts (from Gigamesh, (URL) ) to make a hexagonal frame for my radial compressor. I've got pictures: (URL) the 44374's that the pump bases are hooked to. Very aesthetically (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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(...) I was wondering about that. Wait, that doesn't seem quite right. They all connect together, and that assembly is attached to a medium pully, right? So, the assembly moves back and forth (actually, in a circle) two full studs. Is that the (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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ahh the comressor. create the heart of the beast. standing by. e (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I know. (...) The medium pulley connects the six pump arms into an assembly that is moved around by the 40T gear. The radius of the circle swept by the inner pin holes is 1.5 studs, not 2. So the pumps only travel 3/4 of the maximum distance. (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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(...) I swear. Eric reminds me of a manager. Every once-in-a-while, he sticks his head in the door and asks how everything's doing. Before we can answer, he's on his way to his next project... :) (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Chop Chop! I want to see @ss's and elbows! I want to see little dimples on your swollen fingers! I want to be able to read the LEGO backwards on your finger tips! What do you mean a project of this kind has never been done before! I walked to (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) I had to steal cams from my son, but I improved the geometry. I cannot figure out where all my cams went....... Improved geometry. (URL) test it soon. Kevin (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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-snip- (...) WOW! That is genious, you get to go home at 4:45 today. e (20 years ago, 8-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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(...) That is just too cool! I hope it does well in your tests, it's just too pretty not to... :-) Of course, I only have like 1/3 the pumps necessary to build it, so I'll have to order two more and make the half-sided version. Cheers, Mark (almost (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Check with DACTA on their small pump/small piston service pack. They are about $10 and you get pump, piston *and* hoses. For the same price you can get a pump only on bricklink. (...) Thanks for the positive feedback. Soory about the roast! (...) (20 years ago, 9-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Compressor
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(...) Here is a link: (URL) (20 years ago, 9-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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Sometimes it is not easy to get perfect geometry out of LEGO. I've been wrestling with geometries to get the pumps just the right distance apart, and also having the compression strokes force the pumps through thier full range. I ended up using a (...) (20 years ago, 16-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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(...) This sort of work is much easier, if you're working with larger distances. Getting a circle between 2 and 3 studs wide to spin is NOT easy. Good luck. (...) You should post a screen-shot or two. I'm interested to see what kind of data you came (...) (20 years ago, 16-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic, FTX)
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(...) Thanks..... Like I said using two 1x2's in an L shape got me the square root of two (1.414) or diameter of 2.828..... All the holes in 1x2's are axle holes, so the make the center connector of the radial compressor free to turn I had to use a (...) (20 years ago, 16-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) ^ six (...) I found it on bricklink: (URL) (20 years ago, 17-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: <snip> (...) Here is the picture. (URL) got the whole compressor back together and it is mechanically sound. Whether this provides a superior compressor or not, I've got to try to use the same geometry to (...) (20 years ago, 17-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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Kevin, it looks like you are making strides to create a sound compressor. This will be of great importance (of course) as this will be the heart of the beast. Once this stage of the project is conqured, a major hurdle will have been obtained. Good (...) (20 years ago, 17-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) flat liftarms to get you a pin hole in the right location to use the sheaves? (20 years ago, 17-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Hi David, I'm having a difficult time envisioning this. Could you create one and take a picture? Kevin (20 years ago, 17-Jun-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | SSClagorpion - The Sequencer (long)
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Airline flights offer long stretches of nothing to do. I use these times to brainstorm into my my LEGO idea logbook. On a flight to Boston, I figured out how to graphically design pneumatic sequencers. This led to creations such as inchworm, (...) (20 years ago, 3-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Sequencer (long)
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(...) Sounds good. I think the whole thing will go faster, if there are less pistons to move, because less air is required. So, how many pistons are there? It looks like just the five. Can we put sensors on pistons A & C to determine which state (...) (20 years ago, 4-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Sequencer (long)
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(...) Piston A and C are not replicated. Piston B has three copies (making 4 legs in leg group 1). Piston D has three copies too. Piston E has seven copies (a total of 8). (...) Yes. (...) I want leg lock for when it has been shut off for a long (...) (20 years ago, 4-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - The Sequencer (long)
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(...) But, we have the same number of pistons making the same number of changes. It is faster because now more of the piston transitions happen at the same time. Kevin (20 years ago, 4-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) -Snip- Facinating, sheesh, your smart. I see the beauty. e (20 years ago, 5-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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Well, I've finished moving into my new place. One more roadblock to LEGO building removed. I had to unsort all my LEGO a few weeks ago. The sort has started. So far I've got detailed sort of technic axles, gears, connectors, pulleys, electrical, (...) (20 years ago, 7-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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(...) True that! (...) tsk tsk (...) :) (...) Wow, how great is that! Champion Lego Fans doing their duty. (...) Wonderful, maybe we can hold a Session after all. In this time of rejoyce, let us take a minute to remember the reasons for our little (...) (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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(...) Excellent!! Any chance of SSClagorpion mk I travelling with you? ROSCO (20 years ago, 8-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) All I have to show for SSClagorpion is two possible choices for compressor. Once I pick a compressor, I can build the torso out from there. SSClagorpion has been set aside because of preparations for BrickFest. I have these things ready to (...) (20 years ago, 31-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Thanks Eric, I have a progress report, boss.... ;^) I have completed two compressors. The first is basically a two large pump compressor driven by two RC racer's motors (very powerful). This compressor is implemented with one large piston and (...) (20 years ago, 31-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: I have (...) -snip- eggsalad. Plus we'll be sitting down to discuss the project. e (20 years ago, 31-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Report. (...) That is so cool, we should leave the compressor exposed some how so it could be seen. *Ahem, carry on. (...) Plus is that sweet radial design x2! *Ahem, yes. (...) Radially. (makes "OK" symbol with hands) (...) Right, hence the (...) (20 years ago, 31-Jul-04, to lugnet.technic)
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(...) Actually, as I have always emphasied, the large pump is better if operated furiously by hand. (...) You should get one of the Speed Computer thing instead of relying on your ears and maybe lose your hearing. (...) Hey, what will you be doing (...) (20 years ago, 1-Aug-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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(...) For those of you that missed SSClagorpion at Brickfest... well, sorry. That was your first chance to get a glimps of the beast. Ok, so it was really just the heart of the beast, and the heart wasn't pumping, but that's not the point... :) The (...) (20 years ago, 17-Aug-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Let the fun resume
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(...) I was in a rush getting ready for BrickFest. I changed over my radial compressor from yellow to red (SSClagorpion's official color). In the process I accidentally cut the hoses on four pumps. I've changed the outer bracing structure so that (...) (20 years ago, 21-Aug-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | pneumatic help
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Kevin- I am in the design phase of my crane (the Demag AC 500-1 SSL) and currently I am working on the control system for the pneumatics. Following Ross Crawford's idea, I came out with something like this: (URL) am trying to control four pneumatic (...) (20 years ago, 22-Aug-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: pneumatic help
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(...) Hi Vineet, I'll see if I can help. Your desciption "control four pneumatic pistons individually, and simultaneously having them controlled by one master switch" does not seem to match the second diagram. The primary reason is that you have (...) (20 years ago, 23-Aug-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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During Brick Fest 2004, the 3 Masters of the SSlagorpion got together for lunch to discuss the current state of the project. Kevin showed us his awesome radial compressor during his demos. Steve spoke to us during lunch about logic control and (...) (20 years ago, 4-Sep-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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In lugnet.technic, Eric Sophie wrote: <SNIP> (...) <SNIP> (...) Ok Is Kevin looking at using the Circa Brickfest compressor or the Design I gave him mid August for the compact 12 Pump Radial Comprressor? Just curious.. I was kinda hoping my design (...) (20 years ago, 17-Sep-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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(...) I'm interested in sticking with my own design, primarily because it is my design. You design is very compact and especially good looking though and I compliment you on it. Right now, propgress on SSClagorpion is on hold. My personal life is (...) (20 years ago, 18-Sep-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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Ok, It's December now...any status changes? I've gotten exhausted holding my breath, so I've begun my own.. but must wait until January to buy the rest of the parts I need... (...) (20 years ago, 11-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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Hi Joseph, There is not much for new news. I have done some study of "limited throw" pneumatics. One of the things that makes the larger pneumatic pistons slower than the small ones is the 6x volume difference compared to small pistons. The travel (...) (20 years ago, 18-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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Well I have a leg design at current using 2 large cylinders that gets ~21 cycles/minute with 1 leg and a 6 way radial pump (I don't have enough pumps to fill out the full 12 way...) but it's sturdy and strong and fully self cycling...the problem is (...) (20 years ago, 18-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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(...) 21 cyles per second is good. It will go much slower with 7 more legs. Do you plan on having all the legs be self cycling? How will the legs stay coordinated? I plan on one pison for vertical, and one (maybe two) for horizontal. Do you know the (...) (20 years ago, 19-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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(...) Yeah, I'm estimating 1~2 cycles per minute with all 8. (...) The very reason I'm looking at a linkage solution.... (...) All lego accept possibly for the string/wire with crimped loops to loop over pins. MODIFIED LEGO! Never.. Back back.. foul (...) (20 years ago, 20-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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(...) I don't think Kevin knows how to use LDraw. :) Kevin, we need to talk about the next 'step' for SSClagorpion... Steve (20 years ago, 20-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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I'm just checking the inside of my eyelids for leaks. e THE BEAST WILL LIVE. (20 years ago, 21-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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(...) Aye it shall, even if I have to throw large amounts of $ at Lego to get the parts to do so.. it shall! It seems my Lego collection is too eclectic to have enough to finish it right now.. but I'm working on one... (20 years ago, 21-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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(...) Heck, I don't even know how to spell LDraw :^) (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 21-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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(...) How about like "L-P-U-B"? :) CS (20 years ago, 22-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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(...) It's a tough one.... let me guess. LPub? I think I've heard of it. (...) Kevin (20 years ago, 22-Dec-04, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Status Report
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(...) You guys might be interested in this beast... (URL) (20 years ago, 13-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature
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(...) - The compressor (on top) uses 12 small cylinders (URL) It has 2 battery boxes - The legs lock, and are driven up & down by pneumatics, one cylinder to raise/lower and another to lock. - Up: (URL) - Down: (URL) The legs are driven (...) (20 years ago, 13-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature
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(...) There does not seem to be any guaranteed synchronization between the up down mechanism and the forward back. Slow pistons might not hit the ground before the front back transistions start. (...) That is nice and tidy. (...) Yes, I have a (...) (20 years ago, 18-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature - Greene Scorp
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In lugnet.technic, Kevin L. Clague wrote: <snip> (...) Almost as compact as my radial.. which I've developed /developing 3 and 6 cylinder versions as well.. the 3cyl radial is 12x13x4 studs and can easily be run with any motor (even the micro), but (...) (20 years ago, 19-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature - Greene Scorp
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(...) Awesome. (...) Are the down legs coming up at the same time as the up legs are coming down? Sclagorpion will have all 8 legs down, then pick four of them up, shift, and put them back down before lifting the other four. This way the body does (...) (20 years ago, 19-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature - Greene Scorp
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(...) If you use a regular hexagon, the radial compressor would look awesome mounted on its side in the centre. ROSCO (20 years ago, 19-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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| | Re: SSClagorpion - Another creature - Greene Scorp
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(...) <snip> (...) Yeah, Im looing to isolate each movement completely and have it so the body doesn't have a grav well. I'm not 100% on the orderit may be that instead of AD going to AF, I do AD, -> BU -> AF -> BR -> BD -> AU -> BF -> AR -> AD (...) (20 years ago, 19-Jan-05, to lugnet.technic)
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