 | | how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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How large compared to an ISD would NCC-1701D aka Enterprise-D be? (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) IIRC, the enterprise-D is supposed to be just under a kilometer long, so it would be just under 2/3rds the length of an imperial-class star destroyer(1.6 Km or a mile) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Okay, next question: how big would the original Enterprise (original series) be? (somewhat serious) How about the aircraft carrier Enterprise (WWII)? (somewhat not serious) Or modern Big-E aircraft carrier? (somewhat not serious) Or, an even (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) IIRC, I saw an overlay of the top view of 1701-D on the modern Enterprise aircraft carrier--they were the same length--front of saucer to back of nacelle is the same length as bow to stern. 1701-D was somewhat wider than the aircraft carrier, (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) USS Enterprise NCC-1701: 289 Meters USS Enterprise NCC-1701A: 305 Meters USS Enterprise NCC-1701B: 467 Meters USS Enterprise NCC-1701C: 526 Meters USS Enterprise NCC-1701D: 641 Meters USS Enterprise NCC-1701E: 700 Meters USS Enterprise CV-6 (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Hm, I thought that Enterprise-D was 2000 ft long, as the original ship was in the 950 ft length (Enterprise-A went to 1000 feet), and D was supposed to be twice and long and twice as high. My thought is that Enterprise-D would be smaller to (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) A little bit longer, no more than a 50 foot difference in length. (...) Actually, if you can find the book The Making of Star Trek, there is a diagram that is a size comparison. Turns out that the TV Enterprise was about as long at the (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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(...) Hm, makes me wish that there was a size comparison chart of these... Joe Meno PS Is it me, or is the ISD really that small? I keep on thinking that Enerprise-D would be smaller than the lengths suggest. (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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In lugnet.starwars, Joe Meno writes: <snip> (...) Me, too. hmmm, how hard would it be to re-size images? But where to find them all. (...) Me, too. Mental picture is that the ISD would dwarf any Star Trek craft, except the Borg cube, and I don't (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Yeah, I thought that too, but hey, numbers don't like. I think the sizes of Star Trek ships are misleading because of the warp nacelles and thin, streamlined shapes, whereas the ISD is this big bulky monster. The Borg Cube is, by the way, (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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(...) Ask and you shall receive. (now somebody ask for me to win the lottery *heh*) (URL) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Please don't take this the wrong way, but I hate you! Okay, really, those are cool. James (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Wowzers! I need to go through those charts:) But I did a quick graphic that seems to indicate that Enterprise is too big, or the ISD is too small. I grabbed some graphics of both and scaled them together: (URL) really have a hard time seeing (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Hehe. Hey, I didn't make 'em, I just found 'em. No need for wrath :) Adrian (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) <geek> You're using an image of a Victory Class Star Destroyer. I think the current discussion is in regards to the Imperial Star Destroyer. :) </geek> ~GAMH (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) LOL! Well, I used this diagram for relative size (not much else) so I needed a side view, and the fact I found this one first. My mistake:). (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) And your scale's off. the ISD is 1600 meters, the Enterprise under 700, so the ISD should be over twice as long. Adrian -- www.brickfrenzy.com (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) <sarcasm> You call this thorough?! Where's the Super Star Destroyer? Where's the Death Star?!? Sheesh! </sarcasm> Thanks for doing the research! James (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Using the picture Joe posted, I redid the scales. 1600/641 = ~2.496. With that in mind, I think this picture is a little more on scale. (URL) Spears MichLUG - (URL) Page - (URL) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Super Star Destroyer: 12,800 Meters Death Star 1: 120,000 Meters in Diameter Death Star 2: 160,000 Meters in Diameter -Jason (URL) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Sorry, gang...I used the scale that was mentioned at the beginning of this thread. Completely forgot the numbers. This looks more reasonable. Thanks for the clarifications! Joe Meno (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Joe, Given the dimensions Adrian posted earlier, I'd say one of your graphics is the wrong size. He's got the ISD at 1600 meters, NCC1701D at 641 meters, just over 40% as long. James (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Sorry, didn't use the actual lengths, but the size ratio that was mentioned earlier in this thread. My mistake. Joe Meno (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Yep, you're right. I used the wrong ratio (which was mentioned in an earlier note in this thread), as opposed to the actual lengths. Oops. Jason Spears has redone and corrected this. And I a little chagrined:) Joe Meno (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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How's this look? (URL) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) *one of top 5 TNG episodes--Relics Dave K p.s. whoever said the overlay of the Starship Enterprise and the Aircraft Carrier Enterprise was right--it was the original 1701, no bloody A, B, C, orrr D... I'll try looking thru my archives and see (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) I hope Scotty thanked the battery manufacturer. Energizer bunny? James (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Hey, don't feel bad. In the haste to solve the important issues of the day, we sometimes jump too soon. James (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Ain't that the truth! Joe Meno :) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) That was a major screw-up in the movie! The shaft they were in is only a little over 115 feet deep. Unless they suddenly decided that all the decks were half height... Actually, (according to the deck plans) the NCC-1701-A has fewer decks than (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Unfortunately, you're still using a pic of a Victory Class SD, which isn't as large as an Imperial Class, so technically it's still incorrect. <gdr> ~GAMH (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Hmm. Still wrong. A Victory Class Star Destroyer is only 900 meters. :) (URL) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Hmmm. Maybe Joe Meno's original pic is the right size, then. Now, where's a good 3-view of an ISD.... James (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Gotta love Google's Image Search. :) (URL) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Yeah, uh huh. You had 'em bookmarked already. Geek. <gdr> Chris <>< (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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'Fess up...we all have this as our wallpaper :) -G (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Okay, smarta@@, how's this: (URL) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) And, just for grins, here's one with a Super Star Destroyer, Star Destroyer, and NCC-1701D on one image, to approximate scale. (URL) I've got to go take my antigeekery meds. James (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) (URL) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Jason, unfortunately you've used a reference for the Executor class Super Star Destroyer length which falls for the old "5 mile fallacy" or to be more precise, "8 mile fallacy" (no, nothing to do with the new Eminem movie). Every "official" (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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a LEGO version of the super star destroyer at the same scale as the ISD would be like 24 feet long! Wouldn't that be awesome?!?!? _leni (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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In lugnet.starwars, Brian Tobin writes: <major snippage> (...) ROTFLMAO!!! "Truth?" It's not called Science _Fiction_ for nothing!!!!! That said, there's way too much information there. James (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Well, my latest post, responding to Jason, out-geeked all of ya! James, i'd recommend that you compare the pic in the link below to the schematic in your above link. It shows how horrible and off-scale "schematics" can be! (URL) why I don't (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Actually, it would be 33 feet long (see my previous posts)! -Brian (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) True, but good science fiction has enough grounding in reality to make it believable and maintain continuity with itself. While Curtis Saxton takes this to an extreme, I find nothing wrong with using the best reference possible to ascertain (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) That's what I really dislike about SWTC. He pulls some factoid that sounds right, and uses it as though it were fact. I first noticed that on his description of AT-AT stride length, but also on his AT-AT height description, and (IIRC) some of (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Fair enough, and I enjoy a good sci-fi tale as much as most geeks. I just get a big kick out of it when people start arguing about the size of the "real" prototype from a movie. Especially the ones that are completely CGI! Or cartoons - ever (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) I have to admit it, I've been out-geeked. And on a subject I would never have thought of as controversial. Going home now to polish my pocket protector. It's lost some of its luster... James (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Yeah, James, I know what you mean! I didn't mean to come across as being so militant about this stuff. Believe it or not, I don't sit and obsess about SW scale and such, or spend lots of time researching it (heck, I've only made it through a (...) (22 years ago, 16-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Technically, you can guess that Endor's gravity is very close to that on Earth, but that doesn't mean the mass is the same unless you also assume their densities are the same. Jeff J (yummy nits to pick!) (22 years ago, 17-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Well-- strictly speaking we know the *mass* is roughly the same. But you're right: we don't know the density of the planet, hence we can't *REALLY* guess at the planet's volume... And therefore you can't guarantee the curvature of the planet (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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Another piece of evidence supporting this: given that the Star Destroyer and SuperStarDestroyer have at least similiar shaped bridges: if the bridges were the same size (which is a valid assumption), then the length is 17.6km. But if the (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) The Super Star Destroyer and the regualar Star Destroyer have the same bridge. In Empire Strikes Back, Han attaches his ship to the back of a Star Destroyer Bridge. In Return of the Jedi, Han flies past the Super Star Destroyer Bridge. Not (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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<delurk again... can't.... resist.... geekness...> So a SSD built to minifig scale (assuming the 1 stud = 1 foot convention, or 1:39) would be a smidge over 450m (1476 feet) long. I prefer a 4 studs to the meter (1:32) scale for minifigs, which (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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The conclusions drawn by Dr. Saxton in his Technical Commentaries are false. The "true" (as true as any fictional ship can get) length of a Super Star Destroyer is either 12,800 meters as stated on SW.com's databanks, or the 8000 meter RPG length. (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) You can NOT go based off what the SW.com database has. That is not offical! (Hear me out before you start screaming). Mr Lucas himself did NOT enter in the data into the DB. But Mr. Lucas himeself did supervise and create all the stuff for the (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) You are forgeting one very important thing here. Canon sources (the actual movie) overrule any and all offical sources. This is the stated policy of Lucasfilm, Paramount(Star Trek), and pretty much every major anything. In Empire Strikes Back (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Some of them sure are :) (...) Yeah, unfortunately, the guage of "accurate" could be measured: #1 - Canon - anything taken DIRECTLY from the RELEASED movies. Even scripts or uncompleted scenes aren't canon. #2 - Official - anything lisenced by (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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(...) The novels of the movies and the original radio dramas are also canon after the movie in that order. [snip] (...) You say it would be 137 feet tall like it isn't about that. Watch 'Empire' where luke "magna-grapling hooks" his way up to the (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Ah yes, I had forgotten those-- I wonder which order the two would be in themselves? IE would data in the novels be considered better than the radio dramas? I think I'd assume that to be the case. So: - Movies - Novels - Radio Dramas - (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Well the 'Official' order of canon is as follows: -Movies -Novels of Movies -Radio Dramas of Movies Not quite canon but overruling 'official' sources are: -Expansion Novels originally published by Bantam Books -Expansion Comics originally (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) What about "Chewbacca's Life Day" or whatever it was called? Or that Droids cartoon? And how about that Ewok made-for-tv movie? 8^) Actually, you're probably the guy to ask--I recall many many years ago reading something in which Luke was (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Eh? Isn't _Splinter of the Mind's Eye_ in the official lists of books, as well as the other books originally published by Del Rey (Brian Daley's Han Solo novels, L. Neil Smith's (odd) Lando Calrissian novels, and all the books published since (...) (22 years ago, 18-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Ok its been a while since I read any of the books, (they really started going down hill and that is putting nicely,) so the newer Del Rey book are probablly official sources at the very least. Splinter of the Mind's Eye was rendered completly (...) (22 years ago, 19-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Those two are Ignored. (...) That one might be 'official' as nothing in it blatantly contradicts any of the movies. (...) Sorry, no Idea where that one is from, it does sound familiar, like I have read it, but I can't place it. (...) -Mike (...) (22 years ago, 19-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) The website database has been written by an author hired by LFL to write an official reference (the database) that has been published (also the database). Therefore, any information contained within that reference (the database) is as official (...) (22 years ago, 19-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars)
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| | Best site for SW vs ST calcs. (Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?)
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Alright you are completely missing the point here. The order of canon is for resolving arguments (usually related specifically to technological arguments) within the continuity. Most of the 'crap' you mentioned is contradicted by the movies and is (...) (22 years ago, 19-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars)
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(...) Dave, if they didn't design models with a specific scale intended, they wouldn't put figures in the cockpits! the X-wings, Y-wings, and TIE's from Ep. 4 were ALL BUILT to the same scale (1 to 24? I can't remember), and all had pilots of equal (...) (22 years ago, 19-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Finally, another voice of reason! Thanks, Mike. I've been away from this argument since I first chimed in, and I am STUNNED that people STILL try to robotically spout the "company line" coming from offcial sources which simple repeat old (...) (22 years ago, 19-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Sorry, I was implying capital ships-- Fighters, etc, you definitely have a point with the figures. But for ships like ISD's, SSD, Mon Cal Cruisers, Rebel Transports, Blockade Runner, etc, I just can't imagine that the models were intentionally (...) (22 years ago, 20-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) I don't think that *I'm* missing the point, actually. :) (...) There is no need to be rude; we're all friends here. I rather enjoyed Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and the Droids comics are hilarious. (...) Actually, Lucasfilm policy has been to (...) (22 years ago, 21-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) Ok well, I wasn't trying to be rude, and I appologize if that is how my message was recieved. I certainly agree that there is plenty of entertainment value in 'ignored' sources. (...) the (...) a (...) Droids was not originally published by (...) (22 years ago, 21-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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Ok, I'm beginning to see the problem here. You seem to have quite a few misconceptions about the items in question. Let me see if I can clear them up for you. (...) The term "crap" tends to be more rude then polite. ;) :) (...) Ok, I think this is (...) (22 years ago, 21-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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(...) message (...) I see, yes, the word crap is often given a negative connotation. I guess I figured writing it as 'crap' would have indicated it was meant in a joking fashion. (...) therefore invalidating (...) Ah, I though the Dark Horse (...) (22 years ago, 22-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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Of course, the real comparison is between the ISD and a Borg Cube :) (URL) it's the comparison to make for a who would win debate ;) -Lucas Thompson (...) (22 years ago, 22-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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(...) No contest at all--the ISD was having problems capturing the little RBR... Borg would eat the ISD for breakfast-- "We are Borg--We now know about 'the Force'--Resistance is futile" ;) Dave K (22 years ago, 22-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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Hey guys, can we FUT this on to lugnet.off-topic.geek ? Just wonderin'. Not meanin' to offend anyone, but let's move it on over there. Chris <>< space. (22 years ago, 22-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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(...) Capturing without destroying is far harder than simply destroying, and they didn't have any problems at all. Remember the most of the shots fired were ion cannons not turbolasers. (...) I think you have that backwards. One heavy turbolaser (...) (22 years ago, 22-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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(...) Makes me wonder, though-- being that the Borg are a collective of actual living objects, ya gotta wonder if they were transplanted in the SW universe, whether they'd have *fantastic* Force powers. It's not really clear how the Force works, (...) (22 years ago, 22-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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(...) Interesting. Very, interesting. Then again the Borg never seem to take advantage of betazed telepathy or other "force-like" powers found in the Star Trek universe. Still it is an interesting concept that, like you said, we would really need to (...) (22 years ago, 22-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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(...) I think that the point is that if Endor has a very low density but the same gravity at the surface as Earth, then the mass and diameter are both much greater than Earth, because gravity goes by the distance between the center of mass of the (...) (22 years ago, 22-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space, lugnet.off-topic.geek)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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(...) Well, According to CANON Sources, Star Wars takes place ? A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away?; this PROVES it REALLY happened in OUR *gasp* universe! Also, Star Trek CANON TV shows reference our REAL history! IT?S ALL REAL, PEOPLE! So, (...) (22 years ago, 23-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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| | Re: how large would the ISD be compared to the Enterprise-D?
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Still waiting for the Eugenics Wars to happen ;) -Lucas Thompson (...) (22 years ago, 23-Oct-02, to lugnet.starwars, lugnet.space)
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