Subject:
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Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages
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Newsgroups:
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lugnet.robotics
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Date:
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Fri, 13 Jan 2006 23:50:22 GMT
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Viewed:
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3621 times
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In lugnet.robotics, Chris Magno wrote:
> Kevin L. Clague wrote:
>
>
> >
> > I'm sure that LEGO has scrutinzed and wrestled with cost issues much smaller
> > than $5 per manufactured NXT. $5 is a big number when talking about small
> > volumes of a $250 set.
> >
> > That said, you can go ahead with your continued "coherent and resonable
> > areguments about your teeny-tiny $5 flash" without any more feedback from me.
> >
> > Have a nice day,
> > Kev
>
>
>
> Kevin,
>
> While I agree with your points regarding cost/features; and I can
> understand the view of the "need more memory" crowd. I think what needs
> to be expressed more "eloquently" is the fact that while starting from
> the ground up, Lego seemed to have "miss the boat" on a ~few~ features.
Well, let me make my position clear. I want more memory too, and I understand
Danny and Steve B. want for more memory too. But you can't get somethin for
nuttin'.
My initial reaction was "64K !?!? You mean M right? DRAM is cheap!". But LEGO
chose not to do this and it had to be to make a fiscally sound product.
>
> With that said, the caveat is that you can't please everyone, and I’m
> sure a percentage of "us" will never get everything we want.
I know I don't.
>
> CV: I am not a hardware designer, and some would say, I can’t code my
> way out of a paper bag.
You didn't hear that from me you clever programmer you....
>
> My HUMBLE gut reaction opinion.
>
> I would have to believe that their are a wealth of off the shelf chips
> that might have been better suited to "presumably" meet both the needs
> of Lego and cost, AND still get closer to what AFOLs want. Maybe that
> means slower clock speed, but higher memory?
I honestly do not know. I'm sure as a group we could provide a better technical
solution, but could we do so at the same cost? I just don't know.
I spoke up on two issues:
1. Steve B.'s argument that he could get the flash he wants for just 5$ more.
I don't believe that it is true technically or financially. I still would like
to have more memory FLASH *or* RAM.
2. People still talking about LEGO making custom chips. I work for a company
that designs, simulates, test and sell processor chips. The fabrication costs
are dramatic. It costs millions for the first draft, and hundreds of thousands
for any remakes just for fab. Now we use cutting edge fabrication so our costs
are higher, but it is no trivial thing to make your own custom chip. LEGO is
not a chip company, and does not have the right employee skills to take on
designing their own chip.
But, I still want more RAM and Flash...... I'm still hoping that the digital
sensor interface (which must have bidirectional data flow) will allow us to hook
up Steve B's serial flash and get more memory. For now we must wait for more
facts to know if it can be done.
>
> We can not forget that the counter to your addition cost in R/D and
> research argument is that this is a new device from the ground up. No
> one should be saying Lego needs to redesign now; but from a wishful
> thinking point of view, it would have been nice if, from day one, more
> memory, or X Y and Z were implemented.
I agree.
>
> No one here was in on that discussion except 4 guys. And they can’t
> talk. THAT is part of the feuding I see.
And from what I gather from the article, those four lucky and well deserving
guys didn't get brought in early enough to have an impact on things like memory
size.
>
> I do not have the skill set to quest for chips that would have been
> better than these: (presuming these are the chips in question)
>
> AT91SAM7S
> STR712FR2
>
> Maybe someone who is better versed on, off the shelf chips could do it
> as a point of interest. (Or maybe since the NXT has been announced
> Soren Lund could post here and save people the grief and say which chip
> it is.
>
> Imagine if more if the spec was published. How many hackers here could
> start with a software "hack" based on chip info? Is this naive of me?
> Maybe. (See my above CV)
I certainly would! Not naive at all.
>
>
> OK.... I'm rambling now.
>
> I have a Lego robot dinner to attend
Enjoy dinner.
>
>
> thanks
>
> Chris
> Just some guy
Kev
Just another guy
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Message has 1 Reply:
 | | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages
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| (...) The RCX contains a chip that says (c)LEGO, upper right in this picture: (URL) did Lego have to do with the creation of this chip? Does anyone know what kind of chip this is? (I can't read the numbers on it) Trevyn (19 years ago, 15-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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Message is in Reply To:
| | Re: Mindstorms NXT programming languages
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| (...) Kevin, While I agree with your points regarding cost/features; and I can understand the view of the "need more memory" crowd. I think what needs to be expressed more "eloquently" is the fact that while starting from the ground up, Lego seemed (...) (19 years ago, 13-Jan-06, to lugnet.robotics)
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